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beknighted



Joined: 11 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 11/10/16 8:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
There is no point in a bracketology this early.


Outside of clicks, of course.


Fighting Artichoke



Joined: 12 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: 11/10/16 9:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This bracketology hasn't been updated in over a week!! Why is Charlie sitting around doing nothing? Earn your paycheck, Mr. Creme. Use the new information from the exhibition games to perfect your brackets. I'm sick of seeing the Terps as a 2-seed. Have you not seen the way they easily dispatched their foes? A little freshening up on the brackets, that's all I'm asking for.


mzonefan



Joined: 15 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 02/15/17 10:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

http://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/bracketology

THE RUNDOWN
Bids By Conference

SEC (8 )
ACC (7)
Big Ten (6)
Pac-12 (6)
Big 12 (5)
American (3)
Big East (3)

Procedural Bumps

Kentucky (20) No. 5 to No. 6 seed
Miami (24) No. 6 to No. 5 seed
Creighton (28 ) No. 7 to No. 8 seed
Missouri (30) No. 8 to No. 7 seed
LSU (33) No. 9 to No. 10 seed
Michigan State (39) No. 10 to No. 9 seed
Auburn (35) No. 9 to No. 10 seed
Iowa (38 ) No. 10 to No. 9 seed

ON THE BUBBLE
Last Four In

West Virginia
Iowa
Michigan State
Indiana
First Four Out

Tulane
George Washington
California
St. John's
Next Four Out

Elon
Harvard
Northwestern
Georgetown

Moving In

Central Arkansas
Central Michigan
Grambling
Indiana
Iowa
Middle Tennessee
Montana State
Sacred Heart

Moving Out

California
Charlotte
Lamar
North Dakota
Northern Colorado
Northern Illinois
St. Francis (Pa.)
Texas Southern
Tulane


SDHoops



Joined: 09 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: 02/15/17 11:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So.....the #1 and #2 nationally ranked teams would be in the same regional bracket???? Really Charlie....are you that lazy?.....I don't think the NCAA committee would be that dumb to put the #1 one seed paired with the best so called #2 seed


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 02/15/17 12:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SDHoops wrote:
So.....the #1 and #2 nationally ranked teams would be in the same regional bracket???? Really Charlie....are you that lazy?.....I don't think the NCAA committee would be that dumb to put the #1 one seed paired with the best so called #2 seed


1) it seems evident that the committee does not at this time consider Maryland the best #2 seed

2) if they were, that's just how it should work out since the best #2 should be assigned to the closest region, which would be Bridgeport


linkster



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: 02/15/17 1:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:


2) if they were, that's just how it should work out since the best #2 should be assigned to the closest region, which would be Bridgeport


Except when the committee decides otherwise. Notice that charlie puts 2 ACC 1-4 seeds in Stockton which is just as much against the policies and proceedures when one of them could easily be put in Bridgeport. How about swapping MD and Notre Dame?

Last year the rule about conference foes in the same region overrode the geography rule and put ND in Kentucky instead of higher seed S Car who got sent to Sioux City. They had a choice of which rule to break and geography lost.

IMO the committee has so many "rules" now that they can justify almost anything. Like, what are the odds that in the last 10 years both UConn and Tenn have been in the tournament but have never been in the same region. What are the odds of that happening.

The really revealing thing is that after a week of speculation over who goes where the head of the selection committee gives one media outlet, ESPN about 2 minutes to ask questions. I think those chosen for the committee do a fairly good job but I want to know who chooses the committee and who makes the rules they are bound by because that's where the manipulation occurs.


linkster



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: 02/15/17 2:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

One obvious flaw in Creme's bracket is that the ACC has 5 teams among the top 16 and he squeezes them into 3 regions. He needs to put one of them into Bridgeport.

Actually I really like the top 4 in Bridgeport. TAMU doesn't present much of a challange to UConn and a Wash-MD matchup would be fun to watch. UConn, MD & Wash are Massey's top 3 offensive teams.

And as far as the geography rule of assigning regions, I am pretty sure that Notre Dame is a higher 2 seed than MD and so they would be sent to their closest region before MD. That would put the Irish in Bridgeport, send the turtles to Stockton. Even if I have the order of the 2 seeds wrong, MD is the 8th seed so they would go to Stockton, which is the furthest region for all 4 of the 2 seeds.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 02/15/17 2:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
One obvious flaw in Creme's bracket is that the ACC has 5 teams among the top 16 and he squeezes them into 3 regions. He needs to put one of them into Bridgeport.

Actually I really like the top 4 in Bridgeport. TAMU doesn't present much of a challange to UConn and a Wash-MD matchup would be fun to watch. UConn, MD & Wash are Massey's top 3 offensive teams.

And as far as the geography rule of assigning regions, I am pretty sure that Notre Dame is a higher 2 seed than MD and so they would be sent to their closest region before MD. That would put the Irish in Bridgeport, send the turtles to Stockton. Even if I have the order of the 2 seeds wrong, MD is the 8th seed so they would go to Stockton, which is the furthest region for all 4 of the 2 seeds.


First, not worried about it ; ND will be a 1 seed.
Second, you're right, the ACC top sixteen have to be spread over all four regions.


SpaceJunkie



Joined: 10 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: 02/15/17 4:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
And as far as the geography rule of assigning regions, I am pretty sure that Notre Dame is a higher 2 seed than MD and so they would be sent to their closest region before MD. That would put the Irish in Bridgeport, send the turtles to Stockton. Even if I have the order of the 2 seeds wrong, MD is the 8th seed so they would go to Stockton, which is the furthest region for all 4 of the 2 seeds.


The last few years, they have put the weakest #2 seed (#8 overall) with the top #1 seed, down to the top #2 seed (#5 overall) with the lowest #1 seed (#4 overall), which is how a fair bracket should be. Geography doesn't play a role until seeds further down.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 02/15/17 6:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SpaceJunkie wrote:
linkster wrote:
And as far as the geography rule of assigning regions, I am pretty sure that Notre Dame is a higher 2 seed than MD and so they would be sent to their closest region before MD. That would put the Irish in Bridgeport, send the turtles to Stockton. Even if I have the order of the 2 seeds wrong, MD is the 8th seed so they would go to Stockton, which is the furthest region for all 4 of the 2 seeds.


The last few years, they have put the weakest #2 seed (#8 overall) with the top #1 seed, down to the top #2 seed (#5 overall) with the lowest #1 seed (#4 overall), which is how a fair bracket should be. Geography doesn't play a role until seeds further down.


Where did you find the order for, say, last year? What was it from 1 to 8?


linkster



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: 02/15/17 7:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:


Where did you find the order for, say, last year? What was it from 1 to 8?


Here's a link to last year's bracket.

http://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/tournament/bracket

The top 4 in order:
1 UConn
2 S Carolina
3 Notre Dame
4 Baylor

The 2 seeds were Texas, ASU, OSU and MD. The conference separation rule came into effect so I don't know how they were ranked. Geography was waived to avoid having S Car & Kentucky in the same region. I remember 2008, when UConn was the top seed and the committee put the 5th seeded team Rutgers in UConn's region, citing the geography rule. This sort of BS is why I would favor having the S16 & E8 at one site. I would also be OK if they followed a strict S curve using RPI, (or a better algorithm). As long as the S curve was formed solely by mathematics. At least there wouldn't be the stink of manipulation that I smell every year.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 02/15/17 7:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:


Where did you find the order for, say, last year? What was it from 1 to 8?


Here's a link to last year's bracket.

http://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/tournament/bracket

The top 4 in order:
1 UConn
2 S Carolina
3 Notre Dame
4 Baylor

The 2 seeds were Texas, ASU, OSU and MD. The conference separation rule came into effect so I don't know how they were ranked. Geography was waived to avoid having S Car & Kentucky in the same region. I remember 2008, when UConn was the top seed and the committee put the 5th seeded team Rutgers in UConn's region, citing the geography rule. This sort of BS is why I would favor having the S16 & E8 at one site. I would also be OK if they followed a strict S curve using RPI, (or a better algorithm). As long as the S curve was formed solely by mathematics. At least there wouldn't be the stink of manipulation that I smell every year.


Yeah, I don't know how they were ranked by the committee either, so I can't assess the validity of the clam that they actually folded the bracket for the top eight teams.


SpaceJunkie



Joined: 10 Sep 2012
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Location: Minnesota


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PostPosted: 02/15/17 9:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Where did you find the order for, say, last year? What was it from 1 to 8?


2015 Kentucky obviously had to be the weakest #2 seed (#8 overall), and was placed with #1 overall UConn, and the presumed top #2 seed, Tennessee was put in Spokane with the weakest #1 seed (#4), Maryland.

2016 Oregon St had to be the top #2 seed and Baylor the weakest #1 seed.
Arizona St had to be the weakest #2 seed, but they were put with #2 overall South Carolina, so I'm not sure how that worked out, but UCLA would've been the top #3 overall seed and those two couldn't be together.
I also am 99% sure Michigan St was the weakest #4 seed (and Mississippi St top #5 seed) and they were put with UConn, though #4 seed Texas A&M might've been put with Baylor in the Texas region due to geography.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 02/15/17 9:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SpaceJunkie wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
Where did you find the order for, say, last year? What was it from 1 to 8?


2015 Kentucky obviously had to be the weakest #2 seed (#8 overall), and was placed with #1 overall UConn, and the presumed top #2 seed, Tennessee was put in Spokane with the weakest #1 seed (#4), Maryland.

2016 Oregon St had to be the top #2 seed and Baylor the weakest #1 seed.
Arizona St had to be the weakest #2 seed, but they were put with #2 overall South Carolina, so I'm not sure how that worked out, but UCLA would've been the top #3 overall seed and those two couldn't be together.
I also am 99% sure Michigan St was the weakest #4 seed (and Mississippi St top #5 seed) and they were put with UConn, though #4 seed Texas A&M might've been put with Baylor in the Texas region due to geography.


So you're guessing and backed in to the answer. Easy to come up with the answer you want that way.


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: 02/16/17 1:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

President Trump declines offer to fill out NCAA tournament brackets on ESPN

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18692796/president-donald-trump-declines-offer-fill-ncaa-tournament-brackets-espn

Quote:
President Donald Trump will not pick brackets for the 2017 men's and women's tournaments. The White House has notified ESPN that the president will pass on making the picks this year.



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summertime blues



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PostPosted: 02/16/17 1:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Too stupid to know anything about it. Rolling Eyes



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bucks4now



Joined: 28 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: 02/16/17 1:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
Too stupid to know anything about it. Rolling Eyes


No, he's too busy, working!


cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.


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PostPosted: 02/16/17 3:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bucks4now wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
Too stupid to know anything about it. Rolling Eyes


No, he's too busy, working!



LMAO.



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Durantula



Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: 02/16/17 7:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The NCAA is Modernizing the Way it Picks March Madness Teams https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-ncaa-is-modernizing-the-way-it-picks-march-madness-teams/

This is about the men's tournament as they had a conference to discuss potential alternative methods to determine the selections but will the women's committee follow if there are changes made? Thought the article was pretty interesting but as it says, it is complicated.


pilight



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PostPosted: 02/16/17 8:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm OK with Trump skipping on brackets



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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 02/16/17 8:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Durantula wrote:
The NCAA is Modernizing the Way it Picks March Madness Teams https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-ncaa-is-modernizing-the-way-it-picks-march-madness-teams/

This is about the men's tournament as they had a conference to discuss potential alternative methods to determine the selections but will the women's committee follow if there are changes made? Thought the article was pretty interesting but as it says, it is complicated.


The biggest problem with modernizing for women is that many of the independent raters don't rate women's teams.



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Durantula



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PostPosted: 02/16/17 9:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Durantula wrote:
The NCAA is Modernizing the Way it Picks March Madness Teams https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-ncaa-is-modernizing-the-way-it-picks-march-madness-teams/

This is about the men's tournament as they had a conference to discuss potential alternative methods to determine the selections but will the women's committee follow if there are changes made? Thought the article was pretty interesting but as it says, it is complicated.


The biggest problem with modernizing for women is that many of the independent raters don't rate women's teams.


If the NCAA is going to try and combine KenPom and some other independent ratings, couldn't or wouldn't they ask them to make one for the women? I am not some computer whiz but since the formulas are all the same, would it take much work to just use the same formulas for the women's teams?


ikcelaks



Joined: 22 Mar 2016
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PostPosted: 02/17/17 8:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Jeff Sagarin (http://www.rpiratings.com/womrate.php) and Massey (http://www.masseyratings.com/cbw/ncaa-d1/ratings) both do NCAA Women's Basketball ratings already. There's no good reason not to modernize the selection process for women's teams, especially since RPI and especially (vs-TopX RPI) metrics are total garbage on the women's side (as opposed to merely mostly garbage for the men).


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 02/17/17 8:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ikcelaks wrote:
Jeff Sagarin (http://www.rpiratings.com/womrate.php) and Massey (http://www.masseyratings.com/cbw/ncaa-d1/ratings) both do NCAA Women's Basketball ratings already.


They're not similar to Pomeroy.


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 02/17/17 9:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ikcelaks wrote:
Jeff Sagarin (http://www.rpiratings.com/womrate.php) and Massey (http://www.masseyratings.com/cbw/ncaa-d1/ratings) both do NCAA Women's Basketball ratings already. There's no good reason not to modernize the selection process for women's teams, especially since RPI and especially (vs-TopX RPI) metrics are total garbage on the women's side (as opposed to merely mostly garbage for the men).


When I do my annual fun brackets for the women's tournament, where I fill out brackets based on rankings of various ratings, I get 12-15 entries each year (including RPI and the polls). If I did a similar competition for the men, I could easily get 40+ entries.



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