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RobStat68
Joined: 11 Apr 2015
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 Posted: 01/03/17 4:33 pm ::: |
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Hey guys, I have been following this topic for about three years, (I'm talking about the fire Holly Warlick topic) not this particular thread. As a Tennessee fan since 1985, I just don't get it. Have Lay Vol fans become so spoiled by success that a season without a national championship is considered a complete failure? Is the cry for her ouster personal or business? It made me do a little basic research and according to what I found, in the past 4 seasons she has taken the team to one sweet 16 and 3 elite eight appearances. Last year was a bit of a clunker with an 8-8 finish in the SEC, but how many coaches have had her kind of success in the first 4 years a s a head coach?
I understand the criticism and critiques, but to go straight to firing the woman after a couple of seasons, seems extreme. It took coach Summit about 13 years to build the program up to a national championship level, I would wait a while before giving Coach Warlick the axe.
This is just the opinion of a long time lurker and rare poster so take it for what it's worth.
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Ladyvol777
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 248
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| Posted: 01/03/17 5:26 pm ::: |
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| As a long time Lady Vol fan, for once I can see Holly Warlick making a change. I'm not sure what happen but she got the number 1 recruiting class in 2017 per Prospects Nation. # 2 Evina Westbrook, # 6 Anastasia Hayes, # 9 Rennia Davis witch I thank should be # 1, # 11 Kasiyahna Kushkituah, plus Cheridene Green. The class of 2018 is looking like it also could be a number 1 class. Time will tell about this class. It looks like the team is coming together this year. I willing to give Holly a couple more years.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7841
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 01/03/17 6:52 pm ::: |
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| RobStat68 wrote: |
Hey guys, I have been following this topic for about three years, (I'm talking about the fire Holly Warlick topic) not this particular thread. As a Tennessee fan since 1985, I just don't get it. Have Lay Vol fans become so spoiled by success that a season without a national championship is considered a complete failure? Is the cry for her ouster personal or business? It made me do a little basic research and according to what I found, in the past 4 seasons she has taken the team to one sweet 16 and 3 elite eight appearances. Last year was a bit of a clunker with an 8-8 finish in the SEC, but how many coaches have had her kind of success in the first 4 years a s a head coach?
I understand the criticism and critiques, but to go straight to firing the woman after a couple of seasons, seems extreme. It took coach Summit about 13 years to build the program up to a national championship level, I would wait a while before giving Coach Warlick the axe.
This is just the opinion of a long time lurker and rare poster so take it for what it's worth. |
IMNSHO it's mostly personal, and a lot of the people calling for her firing are whiners. The rest just don't like her personality. Too bad, so sad.
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
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| Posted: 01/03/17 7:54 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| RobStat68 wrote: |
Hey guys, I have been following this topic for about three years, (I'm talking about the fire Holly Warlick topic) not this particular thread. As a Tennessee fan since 1985, I just don't get it. Have Lay Vol fans become so spoiled by success that a season without a national championship is considered a complete failure? Is the cry for her ouster personal or business? It made me do a little basic research and according to what I found, in the past 4 seasons she has taken the team to one sweet 16 and 3 elite eight appearances. Last year was a bit of a clunker with an 8-8 finish in the SEC, but how many coaches have had her kind of success in the first 4 years a s a head coach?
I understand the criticism and critiques, but to go straight to firing the woman after a couple of seasons, seems extreme. It took coach Summit about 13 years to build the program up to a national championship level, I would wait a while before giving Coach Warlick the axe.
This is just the opinion of a long time lurker and rare poster so take it for what it's worth. |
IMNSHO it's mostly personal, and a lot of the people calling for her firing are whiners. The rest just don't like her personality. Too bad, so sad. |
And a lot are just objectively stating the obvious.
There is no valid comparison between building a program from scratch, and taking over an elite program loaded with All Americans on which you've been the principle assistant for many years. No coach needs or deserves five or ten years to prove themselves in the latter circumstances.
The coaching shortcomings should be obvious to anyone paying attention. And frankly I don't know anyone who doesn't like Coach Warlick on a personal level.
Some people have nothing basketball related to add to the discussion so they simply attempt to dismiss others' opinions with snide personal comments.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7841
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 01/03/17 9:16 pm ::: |
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| But of course Art is the expert and we must all defer to his superior knowledge on all things.
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
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| Posted: 01/03/17 9:29 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| But of course Art is the expert and we must all defer to his superior knowledge on all things. |
No, unlike you, I think everyone can express their opinion. Even better is when they provide a basketball explanation.
What sucks is when people are dismissive, condescending, insulting, and resort to name calling.
E.g., comments like
| summertime blues wrote: |
a lot of the people calling for her firing are whiners. The rest just don't like her personality. Too bad, so sad. |
I'm trying to discern what value that adds to the discussion
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7841
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 01/03/17 10:17 pm ::: |
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Apparently you do not read some of the boards or other sources I do, Art. Surely you can't read ALL of them. I was speaking of the whiners on those boards. Not everything is about you, you know.
And unlike you, I do not claim superior knowledge.
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18371
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: 01/04/17 12:05 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| There is no valid comparison between building a program from scratch, and taking over an elite program loaded with All Americans on which you've been the principle assistant for many years. |
Using the first part of your quote, but...
Before this year, where would have fallen on the Goestenkors/McCallie discussion, as related to this point?
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 01/04/17 1:06 pm ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| There is no valid comparison between building a program from scratch, and taking over an elite program loaded with All Americans on which you've been the principle assistant for many years. |
Using the first part of your quote, but...
Before this year, where would have fallen on the Goestenkors/McCallie discussion, as related to this point? |
I don't see how McCallie got a particularly slow start. She made the tournament her first eight years. She won outright or tied for the ACC regular season crown her third, fourth, fifth and sixth years. She won the ACC tournament her third, fourth and sixth years. After her sixth year ND came to town and took over the conference.
No one's denying she had a bad year last year. But she seems to be recovering nicely so far this year.
And there's some huge differences in situations. Goestenkors was no Pat Summitt, starting with eight national championships vs zero. Tenn was a stronger program to take over. Plus, most importantly, McCallie was new to the program; she wasn't simply taking over at a school where she had coached and recruited for 27 years. She wasn't simply continuing the same system and recruiting stream as had existed for three decades. One would expect some time to implement a new system even when there is talent in place. There has been no "new system" implemented at Tennessee. Notably you didn't bold that critical phrase of the quote.
I'm not clear on the point you're trying to make.
Last edited by ArtBest23 on 01/04/17 1:08 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63770
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| Posted: 01/04/17 1:07 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
IMNSHO it's mostly personal, and a lot of the people calling for her firing are whiners. The rest just don't like her personality. Too bad, so sad. |
I thought you were talking about McCallie. This fits perfectly.
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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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Lillian Hidgepork
Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 104
Location: Down South
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| Posted: 01/04/17 5:58 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| I think the ideal candidate for the Tennessee job has stepped up and shown himself the past week. -- Wes Moore. |
Wes Moore is one of the best coaches in the land.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 01/05/17 1:40 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| There is no valid comparison between building a program from scratch, and taking over an elite program loaded with All Americans on which you've been the principle assistant for many years. |
Using the first part of your quote, but...
Before this year, where would have fallen on the Goestenkors/McCallie discussion, as related to this point? |
I don't see how McCallie got a particularly slow start. She made the tournament her first eight years. She won outright or tied for the ACC regular season crown her third, fourth, fifth and sixth years. She won the ACC tournament her third, fourth and sixth years. After her sixth year ND came to town and took over the conference.
No one's denying she had a bad year last year. But she seems to be recovering nicely so far this year.
And there's some huge differences in situations. Goestenkors was no Pat Summitt, starting with eight national championships vs zero. Tenn was a stronger program to take over. Plus, most importantly, McCallie was new to the program; she wasn't simply taking over at a school where she had coached and recruited for 27 years. She wasn't simply continuing the same system and recruiting stream as had existed for three decades. One would expect some time to implement a new system even when there is talent in place. There has been no "new system" implemented at Tennessee. Notably you didn't bold that critical phrase of the quote.
I'm not clear on the point you're trying to make. |
McCallie took over a program with eight McDonald's All Americans on the roster. The program had made 7 Elite Eights in the previous 10 years, with four Final Four appearances (and two appearances in the national championship game).
Before this year, McCallie had made the tournament in 8 of 9 years and the Elite Eight in four of the nine. But she missed the tournament in one year and lost in the second round on two other occasions.
The program has fallen off from where it was - a perennial Final Four contender (and a team that made the Elite Eight 70 percent of the time in the last decade) to one that could make the Elite Eight (44.4 percent) as likely as it is to lose in the second round or worse (33.3 percent).
My point is that there is a clear middle ground. McCallie did not build the program from scratch. But she was not the principal assistant, either. She was a head coach at another school and took over a truly elite program.
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Ay Mate
Joined: 12 Nov 2016
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 01/05/17 2:05 pm ::: |
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| It is perhaps worth noting that Warlick's first four years have been better than Summitt's last four years, at least in terms of tournament success.
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I ain't got a home
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 01/05/17 3:55 pm ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
My point is that there is a clear middle ground. McCallie did not build the program from scratch. But she was not the principal assistant, either. She was a head coach at another school and took over a truly elite program. |
Yeah, they are mostly dissimilar. I'm not sure why you interjected McCallie into a discussion about Warlick. There's very little in common in their situations.
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Lillian Hidgepork
Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 104
Location: Down South
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| Posted: 01/13/17 8:32 am ::: |
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| Lillian Hidgepork wrote: |
Some of these comments are quite funny. Some of the names being thrown out are even funnier. Ill try to address this in my own way.
1. I think Tennessee basketball used to be great. Everyone can agree on that. When Pat left that left also with her. Memories make it hard for people to let go of what "used to be". There are many many teams that have far more success than Tennessee since Pat left. Many.
2. To get Jeff Walz UT would have to have to dig deeper than they even have X2 to get him to talk to them. I am not sure the Admin loves women basketball like the fans do in Knoxville.
3. I agree the best coaches can "recruit, recruit, recruit. That said Matt Insell, Walz or Staley is your best choices.
4. Taking off of that, Staley and Walz both are at the top. Tennessee is not. Why would realistically think about it. Let me tell you why you think they would. Because you remember Tennessee as the UT of old, not as the mediocre team they have become. Holly cant win with some of the best in the country and her recruiting picks have been less than stellar. Which leads me to the next point.
5. Matt Insell. From looking at this from a common sense stand point he appears to be your best bet to revive your program. However, you will be lucky to beat him this year and after that. He is quietly sitting at Ole Miss building a program. Just beat #25 and it was not even close. Sabrina would not have made it a 10 point game so dont even go there. I think he could be persuaded to come to UT, but better not wait a few years, cause Ole Miss will be ahead of UT then he will laugh at you. Coaches have egos.
6. I think some of you are caught up in the past. You are a good team now. You used to be a great team. Big difference. Like La Tech, Old Dominion, WKU of the 90s you are slowly moving in the wrong direction. Right now you have a memory. Those fade fast. |
Well it did not take few years. Out played you and most of all out coached Holly.
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