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awhom111
Joined: 19 Nov 2014 Posts: 4255
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awhom111
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11186
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Posted: 05/24/16 9:33 am ::: |
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I will be there starting Friday afternoon ...
Look for a preview on MaxPreps Thursday and a follow on Monday.
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awhom111
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11186
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Posted: 05/27/16 10:40 pm ::: |
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Down to 136 at last count ... a change this year: They will keep 15-22 players through June 2, then choose the final 12 from there.
A good move, all in all ...
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awhom111
Joined: 19 Nov 2014 Posts: 4255
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awhom111
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awhom111
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11186
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Posted: 05/29/16 3:39 pm ::: |
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Some really surprising cuts to 41 ... the reaction from one of women's basketball's leading figures when told a girl had made the cut after hearing who hadn't: "Are you f....... kidding me?"
The shockers to me:
Chloe Chapman (Our Lady of Good Counsel)
Rennia Davis (Ribault)
Taylor Kissinger (Minden NE)
Emer Nichols (Westbury Christian TX)
Zarielle Green (Duncanville)
Haley Jones (Mitty)
NaLyssa Smith (East Central TX) -- the biggest surprise, a 6-4 athlete who seemed to do pretty much everything but make threes
Ashley Owusu (Paul VI)
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awhom111
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 06/03/16 1:16 pm ::: |
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The final team has been announced. http://www.usab.com/womens/u17/roster.aspx
Interesting that they basically scrapped last year's U16 team and started over. Only two returnees even though the tryout pool was largely the same, as I understand it. They largely skipped over the class of 2017 and went directly to 2018 and even one 2019.
Differing views on Twitter. Mike Flynn seems to think they did a great job putting this team together, Kenny Kalina and others not so much.
It does, though, undermine the argument that has been advanced here that playing on an age group USAB team represents a small elite group and best represents the elite players if ten players can be "elite" one year and not the next. The USAB selections may not be so "infallible" after all.
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bballjunkie
Joined: 12 Aug 2014 Posts: 785
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Posted: 06/03/16 1:40 pm ::: |
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IMO and from talking to recruiters and AAU, there are no real elite players that USA needs to dominate. Therefore why not start from scratch, it was implied that the prior group struggled with team concepts so pick another group and see if you can get a little more out of them to compete.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11186
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Posted: 06/03/16 3:17 pm ::: |
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Off of what I saw, there are a bunch of pretty good players to choose from, but no great ones. The best is Rellah Boothe, who has an on-and-off motor, and was bumped to the U18 team after not making the U17 roster last year.
The only two players who are left from last year's team are Aquira DeCosta and Sedona Prince (a 6-7 2018 who I was very impressed with). The best of the rest, from my perspective, was 2019 Samantha Brunelle, a 6-2 girl who can shoot it and play inside.
The big issue for this team will be finding points that don't come in transition or off steals. There aren't a lot of shooters, and those who can shoot aren't really a threat to drive.
And there's not a pure point guard, though maybe Taylor Mikesell is. I was very surprised she made the team, as I didn't have a single note on her the entire time I was there. But she did something right ...
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 06/03/16 3:54 pm ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
Off of what I saw, there are a bunch of pretty good players to choose from, but no great ones. The best is Rellah Boothe, who has an on-and-off motor, and was bumped to the U18 team after not making the U17 roster last year.
The only two players who are left from last year's team are Aquira DeCosta and Sedona Prince (a 6-7 2018 who I was very impressed with). The best of the rest, from my perspective, was 2019 Samantha Brunelle, a 6-2 girl who can shoot it and play inside.
The big issue for this team will be finding points that don't come in transition or off steals. There aren't a lot of shooters, and those who can shoot aren't really a threat to drive.
And there's not a pure point guard, though maybe Taylor Mikesell is. I was very surprised she made the team, as I didn't have a single note on her the entire time I was there. But she did something right ... |
Don't know if you saw Blue Star's writeup of the 18 finalists ( http://www.bluestarmedia.org/usa-u17-finalists-images-and-evals/), but they made it sound like Destanni Henderson was the savior at PG. Any thoughts on her?
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sammieee
Joined: 17 Jan 2009 Posts: 608
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Posted: 06/03/16 4:15 pm ::: |
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Any reason why they would bump Boothe up if they needed more talent in the U17? The U18 seems to have enough talent to win, and already have upper classman in Cox, Dangerfield, Rameriz and has Walker. And isn't the U18 Fiba America? Unless Canada or Brazil is stacked, not sure why the move.
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PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013 Posts: 1371
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Posted: 06/03/16 10:09 pm ::: |
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sammieee wrote: |
Any reason why they would bump Boothe up if they needed more talent in the U17? The U18 seems to have enough talent to win, and already have upper classman in Cox, Dangerfield, Rameriz and has Walker. And isn't the U18 Fiba America? Unless Canada or Brazil is stacked, not sure why the move. |
Perhaps Boothe would have been the clear star on this team; and they wanted to both go with a more team-centric approach and put Boothe with players that she can learn more from playing with.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11186
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Posted: 06/04/16 11:57 am ::: |
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I thought Henderson was good but not great ... she should do fine, though. Very quick ...
As for Boothe, she didn't make the U16s last year, and maybe coach Dori Oldaker felt her work rate wouldn't help develop the younger players. Hard to say ... Boothe had the most offensive talent of the U17s and it's not like the U18 posts were god-like.
If Boothe goes hard all the time, she's really, really good.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8249 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 06/04/16 12:35 pm ::: |
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Maybe girl's basketball, both in the aggregate and in terms of superstars, is in a talent decline.
High school basketball may have peaked with the class of 2004. There have been a few superstars since then -- Moore, EDD, Griner, maybe Charles.
But the teen decade has been sort of blah with no superstars in sight.
Just a thought, which could be wrong. |
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ClayK
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Posted: 06/04/16 12:50 pm ::: |
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GlennMacGrady wrote: |
Maybe girl's basketball, both in the aggregate and in terms of superstars, is in a talent decline.
High school basketball may have peaked with the class of 2004. There have been a few superstars since then -- Moore, EDD, Griner, maybe Charles.
But the teen decade has been sort of blah with no superstars in sight.
Just a thought, which could be wrong. |
I hear the Stewart kid is pretty good ...
But the steady rise in participation in volleyball and soccer, and the flat numbers or decline in basketball, is having an impact, I think. I don't follow those other two sports at the youth level, so I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me if someone who could have been a basketball superstar is now dominating in volleyball or soccer.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 06/05/16 12:23 pm ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
GlennMacGrady wrote: |
Maybe girl's basketball, both in the aggregate and in terms of superstars, is in a talent decline.
High school basketball may have peaked with the class of 2004. There have been a few superstars since then -- Moore, EDD, Griner, maybe Charles.
But the teen decade has been sort of blah with no superstars in sight.
Just a thought, which could be wrong. |
I hear the Stewart kid is pretty good ...
But the steady rise in participation in volleyball and soccer, and the flat numbers or decline in basketball, is having an impact, I think. I don't follow those other two sports at the youth level, so I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me if someone who could have been a basketball superstar is now dominating in volleyball or soccer. |
I think it's just what you've been talking about for years, that the AAU system is creating a bunch of fast break oriented athletes and doesn't value or encourage girls to learn fundamentals and scoring skills.
On the U16 team last year there was a paucity of players who could shoot. No outside shooters, no pull up shooters, no mid range shooters, and layups were an adventure.
Same problem on the U18 3x3 team this weekend - Ramirez was the only scorer. Because it's all man-to-man defense, 3x3 requires an ability to create your own shot with a hand in your face. There's few open set shots, and no transition fast breaks.
Look how many womens college teams rely on transition offense because they recruit athletes and not basketball players. The number of elite teams that play really good half court offense is very very small. Half court offense becomes someone either jacking up a bad shot, or going 1-on-5 to the rim. I'm not convinced a lot of those coaches know how to coach offense so they rely just on recruiting to try to win. You actually see more organized and better executed offenses on many mid majors who can't get the elite athletes. They have lots of less-gifted players who rely on sound fundamentals instead of raw athleticism. Unfortunately so many top schools seems to recruit the elite athletes regardless of their basketball skills that it encourages that style of play.
The quality of play that I've seen on these Nike Elite AAU travel teams is frankly pretty abysmal. That style may work when they play against each other, but it doesn't when they face the International teams.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11186
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Posted: 06/06/16 9:25 am ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
ClayK wrote: |
GlennMacGrady wrote: |
Maybe girl's basketball, both in the aggregate and in terms of superstars, is in a talent decline.
High school basketball may have peaked with the class of 2004. There have been a few superstars since then -- Moore, EDD, Griner, maybe Charles.
But the teen decade has been sort of blah with no superstars in sight.
Just a thought, which could be wrong. |
I hear the Stewart kid is pretty good ...
But the steady rise in participation in volleyball and soccer, and the flat numbers or decline in basketball, is having an impact, I think. I don't follow those other two sports at the youth level, so I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me if someone who could have been a basketball superstar is now dominating in volleyball or soccer. |
I think it's just what you've been talking about for years, that the AAU system is creating a bunch of fast break oriented athletes and doesn't value or encourage girls to learn fundamentals and scoring skills.
On the U16 team last year there was a paucity of players who could shoot. No outside shooters, no pull up shooters, no mid range shooters, and layups were an adventure.
Same problem on the U18 3x3 team this weekend - Ramirez was the only scorer. Because it's all man-to-man defense, 3x3 requires an ability to create your own shot with a hand in your face. There's few open set shots, and no transition fast breaks.
Look how many womens college teams rely on transition offense because they recruit athletes and not basketball players. The number of elite teams that play really good half court offense is very very small. Half court offense becomes someone either jacking up a bad shot, or going 1-on-5 to the rim. I'm not convinced a lot of those coaches know how to coach offense so they rely just on recruiting to try to win. You actually see more organized and better executed offenses on many mid majors who can't get the elite athletes. They have lots of less-gifted players who rely on sound fundamentals instead of raw athleticism. Unfortunately so many top schools seems to recruit the elite athletes regardless of their basketball skills that it encourages that style of play.
The quality of play that I've seen on these Nike Elite AAU travel teams is frankly pretty abysmal. That style may work when they play against each other, but it doesn't when they face the International teams. |
It's not just the women's game -- look at NBA draft projections. Everyone's looking for shooters, and the questions about perimeter players almost always revolve around shooting.
Parents want wins for their money, and they put kids (boys or girls) on winning teams. The easiest way to win, and the easiest to coach, at the youth level, is to collect superior athletes and overwhelm skill.
Malcolm Gladwell wrote a horrible piece on this, glorifying Vivek Ranadive (now the owner of the Kings, and maybe the worst owner in the NBA) for taking athletes in fifth grade and simply pressing other teams to death. It didn't matter that no skills were being developed because Gladwell was all in on winning, just as parents are.
Coaches can't sell a two weekends a month working on fundamentals rather than playing in tournaments, and even if they did, it's a lot harder -- and more boring -- to work on dribbling, passing and shooting than it is to work on inbounds plays, presses and trapping defenses.
USA Basketball has tried to reform the system, but there are too many stakeholders and no one wants to give up any turf.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11186
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Posted: 06/09/16 9:39 am ::: |
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Another point about USA Basketball ...
Watching the Trials and the offense they put in (and the U18s and all the Americans), I am consistently surprised that they don't run the pick-and-roll, or a verseion of Dribble Drive Motion. Both would take advantage of the USA's quickness while making three-point success less of an issue.
But for whatever reason, few coaches of females like to use the pick-and-roll, and I don't know why. The NBA is the best league in the world, with the best players, and the offensive staple is and has been the pick-and-roll -- because it is so hard to defend. It's not easy to teach, I know, and because women don't play pickup basketball, it takes more time to teach, but especially in international play, a heavy diet of pick-and-roll would be very difficult to stop.
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bballjunkie
Joined: 12 Aug 2014 Posts: 785
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Posted: 06/17/16 8:39 am ::: |
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However, having 3 pt shooters is a part of the pick and roll, not having it makes it easier to guard.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8249 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 06/17/16 11:36 am ::: |
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bballjunkie wrote: |
However, having 3 pt shooters is a part of the pick and roll, not having it makes it easier to guard. |
While having 3pt shooters can help a lot of things on offense, the pick and roll play worked just fine in the 1920's on the Original Celtics and other teams when there was no three-point shot.
Tangentially, it's amusing to see modern writers proclaiming that the pick and roll play was invented in the 1990's by Karl Malone and John Stockton or by some modern coach such as Bruce Weber.
Nat Holman, the greatest guard of the first 50 years, used and taught the play on the Original Celtics and his CCNY team at least since the publication of his book, Scientific Basketball, in 1922. |
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awhom111
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