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What's Going On At Kentucky?
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scfastpitch



Joined: 21 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: 05/27/16 2:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
The reason I was wondering is aren't there some kind of tampering rules in NCAA? Intuitively, I would think that you're not allowed to try to persuade a player in another school to transfer to your school before that player makes a decision to transfer. If there are such rules, I'm not sure how'd they be enforceable. The Stevens case seems awfully suspicious, that's all I'm saying. Duke is more of an elite school education wise. Basketball career wise, UConn is more elite, but Duke grads do well too, so no real point made there.


Quote:
13.1.1.3 Four-Year College Prospective Student-Athletes.

"An athletics staff member or other representative of the institution’s athletics interests shall not make contact with the student-athlete of another NCAA or NAIA four-year collegiate institution, directly or indirectly, without first obtaining the written permission of the first institution’s athletics director (or an athletics administrator designated by the athletics director) to do so, regardless of who makes the initial contact. If permission is not granted, the second institution shall not encourage the transfer and the institution shall not provide athletically related financial assistance to the student-athlete until the student-athlete has attended the second institution for one academic year. If permission is granted to contact the student-athlete, all applicable NCAA recruiting rules apply. If an institution receives a written request from a student-athlete to permit another institution to contact the student-athlete about transferring, the institution shall grant or deny the request within seven business days (see Bylaw 13.02.1) of receipt of the request. If the institution fails to respond to the student-athlete’s written request within seven business days, permission shall be granted by default and the institution shall provide written permission to the student-athlete."


I could be wrong , but I would think the player frequently has someone such as their former AAU coach gauge the interest of one or more schools in accepting them as a transfer . Might still be technically against the rules but difficult to enforce .


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 05/27/16 4:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yeah, it used to primarily be high school coaches (and still is in many sports including football) who served as "intermediaries" for contacts that would plainly be prohibited if made to the player or her parents.

But in both men's, and apparently increasingly women's, basketball it's AAU coaches who often act like pseudo managers, making arrangements and deals, making contact with coaches, steering players to certain schools, etc.

And in men's there's a huge factor of what shoe company is financing the AAU coach, and what shoe company the prospective school uses. Just a suspicion of mine that that factor is growing in importance in girls BB as well.

I wonder if the increased number of transfers in WCBB stems at least in part from a growing influence of AAU handlers encouraging girls to change schools and making the arrangements for those switches. Somehow I doubt if the women's academic futures are a significant consideration to these folks. Putting "their girls" in higher profile, more successful basketball spots is good advertising for their camps, travel teams, showcases and other associated business ventures, and makes their sponsors happy. Meanwhile, who is advising these players on the value of the Duke or Vanderbilt diploma that they are tossing away in the process?


ClayK



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PostPosted: 05/27/16 10:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The biggest driver in all these moves is parents ... and at one level, having families push for what they feel is best for their children is a lot better than families just sitting by passively and letting a bad situation get worse.



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Carol Anne



Joined: 09 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: 06/02/16 7:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Kentucky’s Alexis Jennings transferring to South Carolina

Wildcats forward the fourth high-profile transfer to choose USC in two years
Jennings averaged 10.0 points and 7.1 rebounds last year
She’ll sit out 2016-17 and have two remaining seasons

http://www.thestate.com/sports/college/university-of-south-carolina/usc-womens-basketball/article81102347.html#storylink=cpy


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 06/02/16 9:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
The biggest driver in all these moves is parents ... and at one level, having families push for what they feel is best for their children is a lot better than families just sitting by passively and letting a bad situation get worse.


But from whom are the parents getting their "advice" and "encouragement"?

Who's steering them?


ClayK



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PostPosted: 06/02/16 9:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
ClayK wrote:
The biggest driver in all these moves is parents ... and at one level, having families push for what they feel is best for their children is a lot better than families just sitting by passively and letting a bad situation get worse.


But from whom are the parents getting their "advice" and "encouragement"?

Who's steering them?


Oddly enough, from my experience, it's peer pressure from other parents, who don't know anything either.

It's the same thing that's happened in high school overall -- a way overblown competition among parents and kids about going to the "best" schools. "My son got into X school, where's yours going?" has become a brutal war over hierarchy and bragging rights.

It's easy to blame coaches (club, high school or college), but all coaches in those groups are dependent on a limited pool of talent, and parents control the talent (though some girls have strong opinions as well).

If the parents don't like what is happening on a club team, they go to another; if they don't like what's happening at a high school, they go to another.

On balance, I think this is better than some kind of rigid system that harshly controls player movement, but it would work a lot better if there was more effort on the part of the NCAA (or someone) to educate parents and families. Of course, that would run counter to the NCAA's long-running (and understandable) desire to rig the system in favor of its member schools. The less families know, the easier it is for schools and coaches to manipulate them.

And maybe, if families had a more realistic view of how the system really worked, we'd see better decisions at the outset, and thus fewer transfers. But there's no motivation for the NCAA to do that, and at the lower levels, it takes time and effort to figure out the system, time and effort that most parents simply don't have enough of to invest.



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Carol Anne



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PostPosted: 06/03/16 7:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

USC Welcomes [Kentucky] Transfer Ivana Jakubcova To Troy

The USC women's basketball team will welcome a power new addition to its 2016-17 roster with the transfer of center Ivana Jakubcova to Troy. At 6-foot-6, Jakubcova will be the tallest Trojan since Monica Lamb (1987). A native of Slovakia, Jakubcova played two seasons at Murray State College before spending two seasons at Kentucky. She will have one season of eligibility with the Women of Troy, and her addition is eagerly anticipated by the USC program.

...After being sidelined by injury for the 2014-15 season at Kentucky, Jakubcova appeared in 24 games and contributed 10 blocks in her final season with the Wildcats, who reached the 2016 NCAA Sweet 16. In her two prior seasons at Murray State College -- a junior college in Oklahoma -- she averaged 8.0 points and 6.3 rebounds per game.

http://www.usctrojans.com/sports/w-baskbl/spec-rel/060216aaa.html


Kailapea



Joined: 28 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: 06/06/16 11:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lindsay Corsaro released from national letter of intent, commits to UCLA

http://espn.go.com/espnw/sports/article/15956159/mcdonald-all-american-lindsey-corsaro-commits-ucla-bruins-women-basketball



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 06/06/16 2:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:


And maybe, if families had a more realistic view of how the system really worked, we'd see better decisions at the outset, and thus fewer transfers. But there's no motivation for the NCAA to do that, and at the lower levels, it takes time and effort to figure out the system, time and effort that most parents simply don't have enough of to invest.


It interjects a distortion into a process that already is difficult by forcing families to make an additional judgment of how important a factor sports should be in the choice. My view is that for 95% of these girls, sports should be seen as a means of getting preferred admissions and a free education but the factors in choosing a college should be largely unchanged from other students. Far far too often the priorities get way out of whack in my view.

And it's exacerbated (maybe less in WBB than FB or some other sports) because many kids are from economic backgrounds where the parents may not be in position to understand or balance these factors either. If the kids are the first in the family to attend college, where does the family turn for advice regarding the lifelong impact of attending Princeton vs. Stanford vs Tenn vs Louisville vs UCLA vs MTSU vs Bucknell vs East Carolina vs Georgetown? Because it DOES matter.

Those who understand either aren't involved or aren't looking out for the kid's overall interests, and those who care about the kid may not fully comprehend the choice.

But for most high school athletes (especially apart from elite FB and MBB players and world class Track athletes), if sports become the driving factor there's a good chance it will drive the wrong answer.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 06/06/16 2:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Not quite clear on what you're saying -- what would inject distortion? More information?

I think that parents, like everyone, benefit from knowing more about how things work than less ... including that their choice of school should have more to do with education than athletics. But no one knows this, and certainly the NCAA isn't going to tell them ...

That said, though, I still think kids should be able to follow the coach who recruited them if the coach leaves, without penalty. After all, the coach can move, so why not her recruits?



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 06/06/16 6:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Not quite clear on what you're saying -- what would inject distortion? More information?

I think that parents, like everyone, benefit from knowing more about how things work than less ... including that their choice of school should have more to do with education than athletics. But no one knows this, and certainly the NCAA isn't going to tell them ...

That said, though, I still think kids should be able to follow the coach who recruited them if the coach leaves, without penalty. After all, the coach can move, so why not her recruits?


No, I'm saying that it's tough enough for normal families and students to make good college choices. Interjecting "where do I want to play sports" is a complication that for MOST kids should take a backseat to the more important factors of choosing a college.

Yeah, I think parents benefit from having as much information as possible. Unfortunately, in a lot of cases, they get information about basketball and have no access to information about education, about the value of education and the value of a diploma from different institutions, or how to balance the priorities.

Example - I saw a kid who initially got a football scholarship to Notre Dame, but because he didn't end up as a starter in his first game as a freshman his dad pushed him to transfer and he moved to Northwestern, and then after a year of sitting out and a year of sitting on the bench at Northwestern, his dad pushed him to transfer again, this time to Central Michigan, where he still played very little his final two years.

Now, from day one, this kid had absolutely zero chance of playing professional football. But he got not one, but TWO chances for a free elite education. There are thousands of kids dying for the opportunity to pay $50,000/year to attend Notre Dame or Northwestern for the education, he had had the opportunity for a degree from either for free, and he had the academic ability to succeed at either one. He tossed that in the trash. For what? For a degree from Central Michigan. To me, this is a horrible example of misplaced priorities. But there are too many parents who, like this kids' dad, had absolutely no clue about the value of what his son was being offered or about how those choices would affect him for the rest of his life. Now, for truly elite FB and MBB players they have to factor in the difficult assessment of their professional prospects. But for non-revenue sport athletes, in my view, they should view sports primarily as the means of getting extremely valuable preferred admissions, and a free education. But generally, sports for most of these players in my view should be secondary to education. And I believe there are a lot of parents who lack the information to understand the value of what their child is being offered, to understand that different diplomas have different values that can affect the rest of the child's life, and to balance the importance of playing the sport and going to school.

And when kids are encouraged to "follow the coach" are they focused exclusively on the sport and ignoring completely the effect of that transfer on the child's education?

Which is a large part of why I said that no one is looking out for the big picture of the child's interests. Those involved in sports are focusing just on sports and over-emphasizing sports. And there's no ready source of good advice on education.

The fact of the matter is that MOST kids applying to most elite American Universities are from college educated families. They generally have some experience and framework regarding the value of education. Sports - especially football and basketball - create a tremendous opportunity for kids from other backgrounds to attend Princeton or Georgetown or Duke or Stanford. But many of those families are ill equipped by experience to help their child make good choices when presented with those opportunities, and the primary source of information is often from people who care about the kid's athletic prowess and nothing else. And that situation is not improved when a kid who is performing perfectly well in the classroom at Duke is convinced by coaches, parents, a teammate, or other handlers to transfer to East Bumfuck St because they don't like their coach at Duke or because the assistant basketball coach who recruited them to Duke just got the head coaching job at EBS. Who's really protecting the kid's real interests in that situation? And is that really a good choice even if it produces a more pleasant or even a more successful college basketball experience? Ten years later will anyone look at that and say "wow you made a great decision transferring from Duke to EBS"?

More information is great. Where is that information supposed to come from? And what are the motivations of the people actually driving the bus in most of these situations? Freedom to make more choices is not itself inherently good; it's only good if the person is in a position to make good choices.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 06/07/16 9:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It would be great if there was an independent source of information, unconnected to the NCAA (which is an organization that cares nothing for students), that all collegiate athletes would have to connect with before signing a NLI or aid agreement.

As you point out, this would give many families information that is otherwise unavailable.

As it is, families cannot -- let me repeat, cannot -- trust college coaches or colleges or the NCAA to have any regard for their interest, and they have no negotiating leverage to bargain for their rights. (And maybe if they did bargain, nothing would change. But still, their voice should be heard, which it isn't now.)

Families also cannot trust club coaches, whose future income and talent depends on what schools their players go to (sending a kid to a Pac-12 school where she'll never play is better for the club coach than putting her in a place where she will be happier).

High school coaches have little feel for the realities of college athletics, for the most part, and other parents are just as clueless.

If the NCAA or colleges or coaches had any interest in the welfare of student-athletes, it would be a different story, but none of those three groups has anything to gain by giving families information or rights during the process.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 06/07/16 10:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I agree with you. That's why I said "the primary source of information is often from people who care about the kid's athletic prowess and nothing else". The people primarily involved in the process either don't have the knowledge and experience necessary to make a good choice, or are driven by their own self interest.

Who is there to say to the parents and the kid "there are kids with 4.0 averages and perfect SATs who won't be accepted at Stanford or Georgetown and you are being offered the rare opportunity not only to be accepted, but to go for free; you would have to be insane to turn that down and go to EBS instead, and I don't care if you like the EBS coach better or if your BFF is going to EBS."

If your mom's an MD and your dad a lawyer, and you attend the Landon School, and you're trying to decide where to go to school and play Lacrosse, and you screw it up, that's on you and your parents. You know better. But if you've been raised by a single mom who works as a waitress and you are the first person in your family to go to college, then how are you expected to understand the significance of the choice you're making or how to make a wise decision?

It's just a bad situation all around and there's too many people involved with their own agendas. I assume HSs are supposed to have guidance counselors to help on these choices, but I think they typically don't have the experience or information themselves, aren't much help, or simply are never consulted. But you can't really expect Jeff Walz to say to the elite recruit with high grades and test scores "I'd love to have you here, but frankly if they're giving you a free ride to Stanford you should take it."

I assure you this year as every year there will be literally dozens of football recruits who will say in their interview to Scout or live on ESPN something along the lines of "I considered UCLA and Northwestern and the education is really important to me, which is why I'm choosing Houston."


ClayK



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PostPosted: 06/07/16 3:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In California public schools, even the best ones, the ratio of students to guidance counselors is 1 to 500, or worse.



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