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Coach Perspective on recent player/coach drama

 
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SDHoops



Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 1183



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PostPosted: 05/02/16 1:07 pm    ::: Coach Perspective on recent player/coach drama Reply Reply with quote

I coached at the high school level for a few years. I had players who would dive head first into a stage if I asked them to (methaphorically speaking of course) and I had players who would stand on the sidelines, not do what's asked, complain and question every little thing, etc. I've said things such as if college coaches ask about you, I'm going to tell them the truth, about your bad attitude, etc. I've had parents call meetings with the admin to try and twist that very thing into "coach is trying to say my daughter can't play no ball and shouldn't shoot for college ball." The first few weeks is usually fine, but once the games start and roles are defined in actual games, that's when the real attitudes start coming out. I thought high school seasons were long and I can only imagine college seasons being basically year round. Heck, I even handpicked players to take to a local tournament just so I wouldn't have to deal with parents, but still ended up dealing with them anyway, plus attitudes.

I even talked to a coach who won a state title a few years back who was questioned by family members of a player why this one didn't play and why one didn't get picked for all-tourney, so it must've been his fault for not letting her "shine" enough. I don't like the direction of today's generation. Whereas in my day, the coach got automatic respect as an authority figure and hard work was a majority, now we're seeing hard workers as the minority and very little respect for coaches. I see some D1 coaches on Twitter trying to be friends with their players all of the time and I think it backfires because then it's hard to instill discipline and taken serious (an "I thought you had my back and I can get away with whatever" mentality"). I watched a video where Geno's saying at practice that they have the worst player in the country (Breanna) and I remember back when Dee said during an interview in college that Coach rode her the hardest in terms of being hard on players. It's like, you have your the rest of your lives to be "friends", be a coach NOW. What makes it worse is high school coaches can be even worse at this. I was born and raised by a baby boomer so I believed in structure and discipline when running practices. Some players don't think they have to run or talk on defense, but with me it was you either don't it or don't play. Some players and families still don't talk to me after its all said and done, others I've received graduation invites and even one baby shower invites, but I can look back and say that player had their best year(s) in their career and I hope I and the other coaches helped push them to be their best. Just my two cents! Of course, there's no simple one answer to the state of this problem and not every program is dealing with those types of issues. Another thing also is womens basketball always seemed to take pride in not having the egos that the men did, but it seems like I'm seeing more and more of it.

The point of me writing this is to say, I can see it from the point of the coaches to some degree (i.e. Fennelly, Bollant, etc)..now if it gets racial and very personal, then yes that's crossing the line. But I've also seen the other side where disgruntled players will try to twist things. I've never been sinister about things and I was one who benched "star" players for whole quarters and games. I guess I was lucky to last as long as I did! Wink


readyAIMfire53



Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7354
Location: Durham, NC


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PostPosted: 05/02/16 3:44 pm    ::: Re: Coach Perspective on recent player/coach drama Reply Reply with quote

SDHoops wrote:
I coached at the high school level for a few years. I had players who would dive head first into a stage if I asked them to (methaphorically speaking of course) and I had players who would stand on the sidelines, not do what's asked, complain and question every little thing, etc. I've said things such as if college coaches ask about you, I'm going to tell them the truth, about your bad attitude, etc. I've had parents call meetings with the admin to try and twist that very thing into "coach is trying to say my daughter can't play no ball and shouldn't shoot for college ball." The first few weeks is usually fine, but once the games start and roles are defined in actual games, that's when the real attitudes start coming out. I thought high school seasons were long and I can only imagine college seasons being basically year round. Heck, I even handpicked players to take to a local tournament just so I wouldn't have to deal with parents, but still ended up dealing with them anyway, plus attitudes.

I even talked to a coach who won a state title a few years back who was questioned by family members of a player why this one didn't play and why one didn't get picked for all-tourney, so it must've been his fault for not letting her "shine" enough. I don't like the direction of today's generation. Whereas in my day, the coach got automatic respect as an authority figure and hard work was a majority, now we're seeing hard workers as the minority and very little respect for coaches. I see some D1 coaches on Twitter trying to be friends with their players all of the time and I think it backfires because then it's hard to instill discipline and taken serious (an "I thought you had my back and I can get away with whatever" mentality"). I watched a video where Geno's saying at practice that they have the worst player in the country (Breanna) and I remember back when Dee said during an interview in college that Coach rode her the hardest in terms of being hard on players. It's like, you have your the rest of your lives to be "friends", be a coach NOW. What makes it worse is high school coaches can be even worse at this. I was born and raised by a baby boomer so I believed in structure and discipline when running practices. Some players don't think they have to run or talk on defense, but with me it was you either don't it or don't play. Some players and families still don't talk to me after its all said and done, others I've received graduation invites and even one baby shower invites, but I can look back and say that player had their best year(s) in their career and I hope I and the other coaches helped push them to be their best. Just my two cents! Of course, there's no simple one answer to the state of this problem and not every program is dealing with those types of issues. Another thing also is womens basketball always seemed to take pride in not having the egos that the men did, but it seems like I'm seeing more and more of it.

The point of me writing this is to say, I can see it from the point of the coaches to some degree (i.e. Fennelly, Bollant, etc)..now if it gets racial and very personal, then yes that's crossing the line. But I've also seen the other side where disgruntled players will try to twist things. I've never been sinister about things and I was one who benched "star" players for whole quarters and games. I guess I was lucky to last as long as I did! Wink


I don't want to discount your experience. It is your experience and I wasn't there. You describe a change over a generation that you experienced. But (you knew there was a "but") I have witnessed a coach treat players with extreme disrespect and blame their protests about her behavior on the fact that they are "spoiled millenials" who "expect everything handed to them without having to work for it." I am sick to death of Coach McCallie blaming everything except the war in Iraq on the players she's supposed to be coaching and guiding into adulthood.

I'm sure there's some universal truth in your post. I just hate it when some coaches use it as an excuse for their disrespectful behaviors towards players.



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ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 05/02/16 4:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

To sing my song again ...

I started coaching in high school in the late '70s, and my experience -- at seven different schools, though all in the same upper-middle-class area -- is that kids are still kids. There are just as many jerks, just as many hard workers, just as many overachievers, just as many who think that touching every line is so old school (they thought that in the '70s too).

I think the biggest thing that has changed is the cost of college and the overblown importance our culture puts on what college you go to.

The cost of college makes athletic success more important, even if it's not a full ride. And when parents have an athletic fifth grader who's doing very well, visions of a free ride start dancing in their heads. And until there is absolute proof that won't happen -- which generally is about the junior year of high school -- they are focused on the main chance.

And at the same time, savvy parents are aware that athletic success can play into college admissions, and get their child into a "better" school somewhere. They want their child to be a captain and all-league because they have totally bought into the college lie that where you go as an undergrad will absolutely and certainly define your future for better or for worse.

Educating parents about the realities of life has become more important, and I think there is more parental pressure than before, and also less tolerance of coachly arrogance -- which is a good thing, no question. (That "automatic respect" back in the day was often the result of corporal punishment looming around the corner. When you can't hit kids, it changes things ...)

So coaches have to relate to parents more than they did in the past, but by the same token, those parents are much more involved in terms of fundraising, transportation, support, getting their child extra training, etc. If they didn't believe in their children and the importance of athletics, they wouldn't bother the coach; the fact that they do is energy a coach can use, but it can be a challenge.



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Carol Anne



Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 1739
Location: Seattle


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PostPosted: 05/03/16 7:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

High school football program near Seattle gone mad! Boosters paid coach $60K...but "not to coach." Diploma mill, faked home addresses, etc. Will girls' basketball get this corrupt too?
http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/high-school/whats-next-for-bellevue-high-schools-embattled-football-program/
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/eastside/bellevue-high-principal-scott-powers-leaves-school-amid-scrutiny/


snzuluz



Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 176



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PostPosted: 05/03/16 8:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I have posted this before as someone who has coached on the middle school, high school, and college levels...

The best team for a coach in this climate and 21st century is a team full of orphans...the P word (parents) tend to ruin the experience many times for their own athletes, other athletes on the team, and NEVER want to follow the chain of command and go and complain to AD's and administration...those who yell and complain the loudest usually get their way...

When OBJECTIVE factual information can be supplied against a coach then administration needs to listen...but from my time in coaching, listening to other coaches vent their frustrations (yes, even Div. I coaches have parents calling them up and complaining about playing time), and the overall environment of coaching in todays game most of the parent complaints are SUBJECTIVE...

If a parent or athlete thinks they can do a better job, then when the job opens up, they should apply...otherwise, who are they to end an adults career on subjective complaints...no one goes to their office and yells enough to get them fired...or posts emotional items in public for all the world to see...

I could not recommend coaching or even teaching to any young adult in this day and age...and no, i have never been fired from a teaching or coaching job in my 37 years of teaching and coaching...just hard to see so many adults and their "athletic" children ruin the career of another adult, when the majority of their complaints are subjective (management style issues) and NOT factual objective concerns.


ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 11102



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PostPosted: 05/03/16 10:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Most jobs, unfortunately, are at the mercy of subjective evaluations. Even a top salesman can be fired if the sales manager wants to make it happen -- reasons can always be found.

I will agree that parental influence is much greater now than in the past, and that injects more subjectivity into coaching at the high school level.

That's a change, no question, and many coaches don't want to deal with managing the parents as well as the players. But other jobs change too, and social media skills never used to mean much at the office either.

What it comes down to is that individuals have to decide if it's worth it to coach, given all that's going on, but I'm not sure that fewer young coaches are interested than in the past. Maybe older coaches are moving out of the vocation more quickly, but then again, older coaches always have found reasons to justify not coaching any more and those reasons historically are the same ones they are now: Players and parents.

It's probably worse now from a parental pressure aspect, but I don't find it that much worse.



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Youth Coach



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: 05/03/16 3:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:


I will agree that parental influence is much greater now than in the past, and that injects more subjectivity into coaching at the high school level.


Interference, not influence. Razz
ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 11102



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PostPosted: 05/04/16 9:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Youth Coach wrote:
ClayK wrote:


I will agree that parental influence is much greater now than in the past, and that injects more subjectivity into coaching at the high school level.


Interference, not influence. Razz


Good point, but that really depends on the administration. Some administrators will listen politely and move along, while others will escalate at the slightest provocation.



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Youth Coach



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: 05/04/16 4:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Youth Coach wrote:
ClayK wrote:


I will agree that parental influence is much greater now than in the past, and that injects more subjectivity into coaching at the high school level.


Interference, not influence. Razz


Good point, but that really depends on the administration. Some administrators will listen politely and move along, while others will escalate at the slightest provocation.


I've seen a lot of weak willed administrators that roll over at the least little pressure from parents here in my area lately.
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