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Ex-Ref
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Fighting Artichoke
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Oldfandepot2
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Fighting Artichoke
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linkster
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Fighting Artichoke
Joined: 12 Dec 2012
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 Posted: 02/06/16 9:52 pm ::: |
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| linkster wrote: |
| Fighting Artichoke wrote: |
| Oldfandepot2 wrote: |
Man, this really sucks on two levels, one for her and her team and on a personally level, I was looking forward to seeing her playing live on tv again but they only broadcast the semi finals and finals out of region.
Arti, going undefeated the next two years, what they are not playing UCONN.  |
Ha! Pretty much everyone except UConn fans are looking forward to seeing Breanna, Moriah, and possibly Morgan take their talents to the W. If you remove the losses to UConn, Notre Dame has lost how many games the past 3 seasons? I count one. So it's not too crazy to hope she doesn't lose a game for a year or two! |
LOL People have been writing Notre Dame off of their FF selections for the last 3 or 4 years simply because they were losing AA players. It's kind of odd that their fans are assuming the same for UConn because of graduation. It's not the players you lose that are important, it's the ones you keep and gain. For all the euphoria over Jackie Young you should remember that UConn has a mildly talented pg coming in that should provide bench help. And lets not forget that Samuelson and Collier were 2 of the top 4 HS players in the country.
The expectations of the rest of wcbb about UConn ala 2016/17 are as over-exuberant as those of LV fans this preseason. |
So you think that UConn version 2016-2017 is so overwhelming that a Notre Dame fan cannot even "hope" that ND could beat them? I think that you are either underestimating Notre Dame, overestimating UConn, or you misread my post. I think UConn will be very good next year. I see them as top 3 even if Tucks opts to forego her 5th year. But I certainly believe that ND has a chance to beat them next year.
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Oldfandepot2
Joined: 05 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 02/06/16 11:27 pm ::: |
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| Fighting Artichoke wrote: |
| linkster wrote: |
| Fighting Artichoke wrote: |
| Oldfandepot2 wrote: |
Man, this really sucks on two levels, one for her and her team and on a personally level, I was looking forward to seeing her playing live on tv again but they only broadcast the semi finals and finals out of region.
Arti, going undefeated the next two years, what they are not playing UCONN. |
Ha! Pretty much everyone except UConn fans are looking forward to seeing Breanna, Moriah, and possibly Morgan take their talents to the W. If you remove the losses to UConn, Notre Dame has lost how many games the past 3 seasons? I count one. So it's not too crazy to hope she doesn't lose a game for a year or two! |
LOL People have been writing Notre Dame off of their FF selections for the last 3 or 4 years simply because they were losing AA players. It's kind of odd that their fans are assuming the same for UConn because of graduation. It's not the players you lose that are important, it's the ones you keep and gain. For all the euphoria over Jackie Young you should remember that UConn has a mildly talented pg coming in that should provide bench help. And lets not forget that Samuelson and Collier were 2 of the top 4 HS players in the country.
The expectations of the rest of wcbb about UConn ala 2016/17 are as over-exuberant as those of LV fans this preseason. |
So you think that UConn version 2016-2017 is so overwhelming that a Notre Dame fan cannot even "hope" that ND could beat them? I think that you are either underestimating Notre Dame, overestimating UConn, or you misread my post. I think UConn will be very good next year. I see them as top 3 even if Tucks opts to forego her 5th year. But I certainly believe that ND has a chance to beat them next year. |
If Reimer returns I can see ND being the number one ranked team in the preseason polls next year. Even with her absence, they still could be considered the favorites for the number one slot.
_________________
Cave Canem!
We must listen to each other no matter how much it hurts. Bishop Desmond Tutu.
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CBiebel
Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 1055
Location: PA
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| Posted: 02/07/16 12:05 pm ::: |
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| linkster wrote: |
| Fighting Artichoke wrote: |
| Oldfandepot2 wrote: |
Man, this really sucks on two levels, one for her and her team and on a personally level, I was looking forward to seeing her playing live on tv again but they only broadcast the semi finals and finals out of region.
Arti, going undefeated the next two years, what they are not playing UCONN. |
Ha! Pretty much everyone except UConn fans are looking forward to seeing Breanna, Moriah, and possibly Morgan take their talents to the W. If you remove the losses to UConn, Notre Dame has lost how many games the past 3 seasons? I count one. So it's not too crazy to hope she doesn't lose a game for a year or two! |
LOL People have been writing Notre Dame off of their FF selections for the last 3 or 4 years simply because they were losing AA players. It's kind of odd that their fans are assuming the same for UConn because of graduation. It's not the players you lose that are important, it's the ones you keep and gain. For all the euphoria over Jackie Young you should remember that UConn has a mildly talented pg coming in that should provide bench help. And lets not forget that Samuelson and Collier were 2 of the top 4 HS players in the country.
The expectations of the rest of wcbb about UConn ala 2016/17 are as over-exuberant as those of LV fans this preseason. |
No one said UConn wouldn't be a FF candidate. They're saying that ND should have the upper hand in the head to head. In the last 3 years has ND losing those players resulted in them beat UConn? Right. The fact is that in the overall makeup of the teams, especially if Tuck decides to leave, UConn loses more of their key players and keeps fewer than ND does for next year.
Sameulson and Collier are averaging a combined 16.9 ppg. Agunbowale and Marina Mabrey are averaging a combined 23.1 ppg, and ND is getting back it's 3rd player from the freshman class next year (an Indiana Miss Basketball PG), unlike UConn, who lost their 3rd freshman to transfer.
Stewart, Jefferson, and Tuck are the top 3 scorers for UConn this year. There is only 1 senior among ND's top 6 scorers. In fact, of the top 4 scorers for ND, 2 are freshmen and one is a sophomore.
ND has Hoopgurlz #5 ranked Erin Boley to go along with Young. You mention one UConn recruit coming in. Didn't you sign 3?
Without Turner or Reimer playing, ND lost to UConn by 10 at UConn early this year. 53 of ND's 81 points in that game came from players who aren't seniors. That's 65.4% of ND's scoring in that game. In fact, 2 of the top 3 scorers for ND in that game were freshmen! Meanwhile, only 28 of UConn's 91 points in that game were scored by non-seniors. That's 30.8% of UConn's scoring in that game. If Tuck doesn't return, that's a lot of what beat ND this year leaving.
Here's a breakdown of the two teams' scoring by class as of Noon, Feb 7):
UConn:
Seniors: 941 (Assuming Tuck leaves) That's 47.5% Even with her coming back, the other seniors account for 35.3% of the points.
Juniors: 105
Sophomores: 563
Freshmen: 372
ND:
Seniors: 526 That's 28.4%
Juniors: 261
Sophomores: 532
Freshmen: 531
For the record, while I counted Tuck as a senior, I counted Butler and Nelson (one for each team) as sophomores instead of juniors due to their eligibility.
For incoming players, ND has a #5 and a #11 recruit coming in. UConn has a #3 recruit and two recruits not in the top 100.
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CBiebel
Joined: 23 Dec 2004
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Location: PA
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| Posted: 02/07/16 12:36 pm ::: |
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Just for fun, rather than just keep this only ND and UConn, I checked the stats for South Carolina and Baylor, too.
Points:
USC:
Seniors: 770 (46.2%)
Juniors: 283
Sophomores: 562
Freshmen: 52
Note: USC has some junior transfers who are sitting out this year
They have a #32 and a #74 Hoopgurlz recruit coming in.
Baylor:
Senior: 250 (Only 13.2%!)
Junior: 981
Sophomore: 247
Freshman: 414
They have the #1 Hoopgurlz recruit (I really wish she had chosen ND. We could use more height like her.), #8, and #40.
So for next year, Baylor looks set up really well, while USC might take some steps back, although they do have some transfers who could fill in the gap to keep that from happening.
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 5423
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| Posted: 02/08/16 3:46 am ::: |
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| CBiebel wrote: |
Just for fun, rather than just keep this only ND and UConn, I checked the stats for South Carolina and Baylor, too.
Points:
USC:
Seniors: 770 (46.2%)
Juniors: 283
Sophomores: 562
Freshmen: 52
Note: USC has some junior transfers who are sitting out this year
They have a #32 and a #74 Hoopgurlz recruit coming in.
Baylor:
Senior: 250 (Only 13.2%!)
Junior: 981
Sophomore: 247
Freshman: 414
They have the #1 Hoopgurlz recruit (I really wish she had chosen ND. We could use more height like her.), #8, and #40.
So for next year, Baylor looks set up really well, while USC might take some steps back, although they do have some transfers who could fill in the gap to keep that from happening. |
Nice theory but it assumes that everyone is currently scoring at their maximum potential. Stewart, Jefferson and Tuck are scoring a lot of UConn's points simply because they are the best of many options. Next year others will score. Your argument reminds me of a similar one a couple of years ago about how Notre Dame had an edge on UConn because they played their bench more than UConn.
I'll worry about next year next year.
Show me a team that relies on freshmen and sophomores to carry a large scoring load and I'll show you a team on thin ice come the FF.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18371
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: 02/08/16 12:15 pm ::: |
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For ND, I am curious if Reimer returns.
What is interesting is that Muffet's teams usually thrive on a dominant post option (Riley, Achonwa, Turner), surrounding by three guards and a versatile forward. With Reimer and Turner, there was a little more clogging in the offense, as neither has a consistent outside shot.
Turner may be somewhat of a black hole in terms of getting the ball, but she is incredibly efficient. She may not be passing out of the post, but she is not turning the ball over. Turner provides a ridiculous 1.52 points per shot, which is incredible.
Westbeld is a prototypical Muffet McGraw forward. Versatile, complements star players, can step up and be a scorer when called upon. And she has stepped up in Reimer's absence.
What this year's team lacks is a lot of quickness (part of that being the absence of Loyd). But next year's squad will have a senior Allen, a junior Arike, and a freshman Jackie Young, who are all quick and great athletes.
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Fighting Artichoke
Joined: 12 Dec 2012
Posts: 4040
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| Posted: 02/08/16 1:40 pm ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
For ND, I am curious if Reimer returns.
What is interesting is that Muffet's teams usually thrive on a dominant post option (Riley, Achonwa, Turner), surrounding by three guards and a versatile forward. With Reimer and Turner, there was a little more clogging in the offense, as neither has a consistent outside shot.
Turner may be somewhat of a black hole in terms of getting the ball, but she is incredibly efficient. She may not be passing out of the post, but she is not turning the ball over. Turner provides a ridiculous 1.52 points per shot, which is incredible.
Westbeld is a prototypical Muffet McGraw forward. Versatile, complements star players, can step up and be a scorer when called upon. And she has stepped up in Reimer's absence.
What this year's team lacks is a lot of quickness (part of that being the absence of Loyd). But next year's squad will have a senior Allen, a junior Arike, and a freshman Jackie Young, who are all quick and great athletes. |
Good input, CamrnCrz. As you said, Reimer may come back. The second half of last season she was very efficient with the elbow jumper, which opened up things inside a bit. Kat has moved into the role this season, but she is not as good passing from there as is Hannah Huffman.
By the way, Arike will be a sophomore next season.
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CBiebel
Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 1055
Location: PA
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| Posted: 02/09/16 3:56 am ::: |
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| linkster wrote: |
Show me a team that relies on freshmen and sophomores to carry a large scoring load and I'll show you a team on thin ice come the FF. |
I think you are missing the point of my posts in this thread. Notice that this is a thread about a ND recruit.
So, IOW, what I'm talking about is not THIS year, but the next few years. If ND's freshmen and sophomores are scoring a lot as freshmen and sophomores, and you add players like the 2 coming in to ND, then chances are that ND will be set earlier than other teams.
If the freshmen and sophomores are already in scoring roles, then they don't have to adjust to stepping into those roles.
BTW, as I recall, UConn a few years back actually relied heavily on a freshman (named Stewart) in the NCAA Tournament. How thin was the ice they were skating on then?
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
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| Posted: 02/09/16 8:34 am ::: |
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| linkster wrote: |
Show me a team that relies on freshmen and sophomores to carry a large scoring load and I'll show you a team on thin ice come the FF. |
Interesting. So I guess we should assume Collier, Samuelson and Dangerfield will have very minor roles next year?
Maybe you could tell us who you anticipate being the starting five, and the primary scorers, for UConn next year. You might give us a starting five with, and one without, Tuck.
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 5423
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| Posted: 02/10/16 1:40 am ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| linkster wrote: |
Show me a team that relies on freshmen and sophomores to carry a large scoring load and I'll show you a team on thin ice come the FF. |
Interesting. So I guess we should assume Collier, Samuelson and Dangerfield will have very minor roles next year?
Maybe you could tell us who you anticipate being the starting five, and the primary scorers, for UConn next year. You might give us a starting five with, and one without, Tuck. |
I have no idea who will start next year nor how well they will play. Unlike the fans who have already annointed Patberg and now Young as stars, I like to see how players adjust to college ball.
First, If Cth & Homyonkel are correct, UConn need not worry about the "thin" ice of the FF because they will exit the tournament in the S16.  But if they are wrong and UConn gets to the FF they will be vulnerable. I expect that unlike this year Samuelson & Collier will play major roles. But the lack of senior leadership will make them vulnerable. That will be a novel situation for UConn as well as their fans. But there will be vulnerabilities among the other 3 teams as well.
I have to laugh when I read about how Stewart/Tuck/Jefferson supposedly dominated for 4 years. I'd wager that if I dug through the posts here during their freshman year I'd find lots of posters saying that Jefferson was never going to make UConn fans forget Sue Bird, or even Lorin Dixon.Jefferson was described as playing out of control, making poor decisions and being a poor shooter. And Stewart was labelled overrated by many during her first year as she looked lost on the court. Tuck's knee was an issue during her 1st year and led to her surgery and red shirting. So there were lots of questions about that threesome. It's only now, in hindsight, that suddenly everyone remembers it differently. Stewart did make the FF an easy win for UConn and she is a unique player that can't be replaced. But let's do some comparison of Jefferson/Tuck as freshmen with Collier/Samuelson of this year.
Jefferson/Tuck - 34 min 11.1 pts 5 rb's 3.1 a
Collier/Samuelson - 40 min 16.2 pts 9 rb's 3.1 a
Despite playing behind seniors who scored 80% of UConn's points vs S Car, this year's freshmen managed to play more, score more and rebound more than those 2 "irreplaceable" seniors did as freshmen. If they make the jump from frosh to sophomores those numbers will go up dramatically.
Without saying who will start, I'm comfortable saying that Nurse, Williams, Samuelson, Collier Chong and Butler will play a lot. I expect that freshmen Dangerfield will play 15-20 minutes. She has played over her age with USA BB and held her own as a high school junior playing on the gold-medal U-19 team with Collier and college freshman Wilson.
Stewart-Tuck-Jefferson lost 4 games in their freshman year. I could see UConn losing 4-5 times during the 2017 season. But it would be foolish to dismiss them as a legit NC candidate. Just because they won't be the overwhelming favorites is no reason to think they will be the 2009 Tenn LV's. And next year there will be no team out there dominating. There will be 6-8 teams fighting for the NC. Maybe even a couple more than that.
UConn will be one of them.
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 5423
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| Posted: 02/10/16 2:18 am ::: |
Reply |
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| Fighting Artichoke wrote: |
| linkster wrote: |
| Fighting Artichoke wrote: |
| Oldfandepot2 wrote: |
Man, this really sucks on two levels, one for her and her team and on a personally level, I was looking forward to seeing her playing live on tv again but they only broadcast the semi finals and finals out of region.
Arti, going undefeated the next two years, what they are not playing UCONN. |
Ha! Pretty much everyone except UConn fans are looking forward to seeing Breanna, Moriah, and possibly Morgan take their talents to the W. If you remove the losses to UConn, Notre Dame has lost how many games the past 3 seasons? I count one. So it's not too crazy to hope she doesn't lose a game for a year or two! |
LOL People have been writing Notre Dame off of their FF selections for the last 3 or 4 years simply because they were losing AA players. It's kind of odd that their fans are assuming the same for UConn because of graduation. It's not the players you lose that are important, it's the ones you keep and gain. For all the euphoria over Jackie Young you should remember that UConn has a mildly talented pg coming in that should provide bench help. And lets not forget that Samuelson and Collier were 2 of the top 4 HS players in the country.
The expectations of the rest of wcbb about UConn ala 2016/17 are as over-exuberant as those of LV fans this preseason. |
So you think that UConn version 2016-2017 is so overwhelming that a Notre Dame fan cannot even "hope" that ND could beat them? I think that you are either underestimating Notre Dame, overestimating UConn, or you misread my post. I think UConn will be very good next year. I see them as top 3 even if Tucks opts to forego her 5th year. But I certainly believe that ND has a chance to beat them next year. |
A classic ploy. Take a statement, exaggerate and twist it to a ridiculous extreme and then attribute it to the poster to whom you are responding. What is that latin phrase? Oh yeah, Reductio ad absurdum. I expect that from one of your Irish compatriots but not from you. 
No, I do not see UConn being "overwhelming" next year. But I don't see them falling so far as to eliminate them from the NC picture. UConn will be loaded with talent again next year. Maybe not Stewart-level talent but then no one else will have a Stewart on their team either.
Honestly, I really haven't thought about it much. Unlike you and many other fans of UConn's opponents, I am still enjoying this season, savoring every minute. I'l start thinking about next year in May.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
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| Posted: 02/10/16 10:00 am ::: |
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| linkster wrote: |
A classic ploy. Take a statement, exaggerate and twist it to a ridiculous extreme and then attribute it to the poster to whom you are responding. What is that latin phrase? Oh yeah, Reductio ad absurdum. |
Yeah, like this whopper
| linkster wrote: |
I have no idea who will start next year nor how well they will play. Unlike the fans who have already annointed Patberg and now Young as stars. |
Never mind that no one has said any such thing, but hey never let reality get in the way of a ridiculous rant.
Really struggling though to come up with a lineup that corresponds to your rosy "all is well" outlook, I see. Nice punt.
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 2815
Location: New York
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| Posted: 02/11/16 1:54 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| linkster wrote: |
A classic ploy. Take a statement, exaggerate and twist it to a ridiculous extreme and then attribute it to the poster to whom you are responding. What is that latin phrase? Oh yeah, Reductio ad absurdum. |
Yeah, like this whopper
| linkster wrote: |
I have no idea who will start next year nor how well they will play. Unlike the fans who have already annointed Patberg and now Young as stars. |
Never mind that no one has said any such thing, but hey never let reality get in the way of a ridiculous rant.
Really struggling though to come up with a lineup that corresponds to your rosy "all is well" outlook, I see. Nice punt. |
Does every thread on this board have to turn into this ridiculous ND/UCONN bs? All parties are guilty. This has become a very frustrating board as of late. It's pathetic.
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