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Fighting Artichoke
Joined: 12 Dec 2012
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 Posted: 01/26/16 3:24 pm ::: Gaming the RPI system? |
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I know it's possible and this article argues that it's not only a conference strategy for the PAC12, but that's worked in giving them the highest conference RPI.
But then the article mentions other factors, such as keeping more West Coast talent from emigrating eastward. Which factor has been more important in elevating their conference RPI: OOC schedules or better recruiting?
http://pac-12.com/article/2016/01/15/pac-12-feature-mikeball-seeing-returns-pac-12-teams
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Durantula
Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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| Posted: 01/26/16 3:39 pm ::: |
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I'll guess scheduling. When I think of PAC-12 schools that recruit well, UCLA, Stanford, and Cal come to mind. Stanford's recruiting has been trending down (talking current college rosters, not their 2016 class). If anything maybe its just coaching, player development, and talent evaluation. Teams like Oregon State are not really keeping the top players home in the sense that they never had a chance for the Mercedes Russell's or Jaime Nared's of the world, but they are getting other west coast kids who were not as highly regarded, coaching them up, and winning. Same can be said for Arizona State.
Will it change much? Hard to say. RPI is easy to game, but its easy to say avoid playing sub 300 RPI teams, everyone needs home games and well someone has to play some of the lower end teams. Also I think some teams may not care that much, and think in the big picture if they do well in conference play and handle their business they will make the tourney, regardless of whether they schedule Pacific instead of UC Davis or something, if it affects the RPI in a major way.
Last edited by Durantula on 01/26/16 3:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 01/26/16 3:43 pm ::: |
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They've held their own against the other majors, going 14-16 in those games. The SEC killed them, but they were .500 or better against the other three including a perfect 3-0 against the B10. That's a big change from a year ago when they were under .500 against all the other majors. OTOH, in 2013-14 the P12 had winning records against all the majors except the SEC while posting losing records against the AAC, A10 and BEast.
Scheduling helps, but you've got to win those games for it to matter.
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Fighting Artichoke
Joined: 12 Dec 2012
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| Posted: 01/26/16 5:28 pm ::: |
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I would think that coaching might be part of the reason for the PAC12 success as well. Close has done well recruiting and she is starting to convert that recruiting success to wins. She has also scheduled VERY aggressively, which helps RPI.
Rueck does very well without top players at Oregon St., and Oregon may finally have a coach that can build up that program (much to the chagrin of the Zags). McGuff got some players before he left and he left his assistant to run the Huskies and he seems pretty good. Washington State has used foreign recruits to build their program.
Charli at ASU took a bit of time to rebuild her roster after her 'sabbatical', but her system seems to be doing well the past couple of years.
Gottlieb got some nice press when Cal made the FF a couple years back, but she has had some problems with attrition. I'm not sure what to make of her right now.
I don't think Tara is losing it (as has been suggested on some boards), but every coach looks better when they have better players, and her recruiting hit a dry spell (and some injuries as well). Arizona actually has a pulse this year, and Utah has had early success, but Colorado looks like a doormat. USC looked much improved this season, but then the administrative error derailed them.
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patsweetpat
Joined: 14 Jul 2010
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| Posted: 01/26/16 9:50 pm ::: Re: Gaming the RPI system? |
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| Fighting Artichoke wrote: |
I know it's possible and this article argues that it's not only a conference strategy for the PAC12, but that's worked in giving them the highest conference RPI.
But then the article mentions other factors, such as keeping more West Coast talent from emigrating eastward. Which factor has been more important in elevating their conference RPI: OOC schedules or better recruiting?
http://pac-12.com/article/2016/01/15/pac-12-feature-mikeball-seeing-returns-pac-12-teams |
That article doesn't say anything about "gaming" the RPI system. It just says that Pac-12 teams-- generally speaking-- scheduled tougher OOC opponents for themselves than in years past, and won a fair number of those OOC contests, and that the conference's RPI has increased as a result.
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Fighting Artichoke
Joined: 12 Dec 2012
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| Posted: 01/26/16 11:51 pm ::: Re: Gaming the RPI system? |
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| patsweetpat wrote: |
| Fighting Artichoke wrote: |
I know it's possible and this article argues that it's not only a conference strategy for the PAC12, but that's worked in giving them the highest conference RPI.
But then the article mentions other factors, such as keeping more West Coast talent from emigrating eastward. Which factor has been more important in elevating their conference RPI: OOC schedules or better recruiting?
http://pac-12.com/article/2016/01/15/pac-12-feature-mikeball-seeing-returns-pac-12-teams |
That article doesn't say anything about "gaming" the RPI system. It just says that Pac-12 teams-- generally speaking-- scheduled tougher OOC opponents for themselves than in years past, and won a fair number of those OOC contests, and that the conference's RPI has increased as a result. |
From the article: "“He came in with this huge packet, with color-coded graphs. The message was, ‘Everybody needs to get eight or nine wins (in the non-conference) and you need to play the best teams you can beat’,” Close said."
In other words, the way to get the best conference RPI is for everyone to play the best teams you know you can beat. So you shouldn't schedule teams that you expect to have really bad RPI's, but you also shouldn't challenge yourself too much because everyone needs 8 or 9 wins. That sounds like a way to manipulate the metric, yes?
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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| Posted: 01/27/16 8:51 am ::: |
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| The biggest key to the RPI (other than winning games of course) is to schedule the top teams from the smaller conferences. Those teams should get lots of wins which will bolster the RPI of the Power 5 team. And in theory, Power 5 teams should be able to beat top teams from the smaller conferences.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 01/27/16 12:02 pm ::: |
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College coaching is recruiting, first and foremost. Obviously, other factors can apply, but the bottom line is better players have a better chance to win games.
So I think the Pac-12 has better coaches who recruit better, and thus the league is on the rise.
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patsweetpat
Joined: 14 Jul 2010
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| Posted: 01/27/16 2:34 pm ::: Re: Gaming the RPI system? |
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| Fighting Artichoke wrote: |
| patsweetpat wrote: |
| Fighting Artichoke wrote: |
I know it's possible and this article argues that it's not only a conference strategy for the PAC12, but that's worked in giving them the highest conference RPI.
But then the article mentions other factors, such as keeping more West Coast talent from emigrating eastward. Which factor has been more important in elevating their conference RPI: OOC schedules or better recruiting?
http://pac-12.com/article/2016/01/15/pac-12-feature-mikeball-seeing-returns-pac-12-teams |
That article doesn't say anything about "gaming" the RPI system. It just says that Pac-12 teams-- generally speaking-- scheduled tougher OOC opponents for themselves than in years past, and won a fair number of those OOC contests, and that the conference's RPI has increased as a result. |
From the article: "“He came in with this huge packet, with color-coded graphs. The message was, ‘Everybody needs to get eight or nine wins (in the non-conference) and you need to play the best teams you can beat’,” Close said."
In other words, the way to get the best conference RPI is for everyone to play the best teams you know you can beat. So you shouldn't schedule teams that you expect to have really bad RPI's, but you also shouldn't challenge yourself too much because everyone needs 8 or 9 wins. That sounds like a way to manipulate the metric, yes? |
"Schedule games against the best teams you can win against" doesn't sound, to me, like "gaming" or "manipulating" the system, but I suppose we're now in a semantic debate.
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