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kool-aide
Joined: 09 Jun 2009
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 Posted: 01/20/16 9:58 am ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| kool-aide wrote: |
Even HOF coaches sometimes have teams that develop interpersonal issues & bad chemistry. Holly & the assistant coaches are not the main problem with this iteration of the Lady Vols.
This is not the first time an NCAA team of DeShields led has shown up for some games and not others. Or refused to follow game plans. Or had chemistry issues. She may or may not be The Problem in both of those situations. But the comparisons between the two teams are there.
Her physical gifts & basketball skills could be so very good for women's bball, imo. I want her to develop on & off the court to fulfill that promise & potential. |
You blame everything on DD, someone you do not know personally? How do you know that the entire UNC team was not dysfunctional in some other way, since most of them fled for greener pastures? |
Rarely is only one person "to blame" in any situation. And as I said in my post, "She may or may not be The Problem in both of those situations." But, careful observers who watched UNC & UT play might notice a few common threads in the two teams' effort, play, and how they relate. When it comes to tournament time, I wouldn't be surprised if the Lady Vols go farther than their regular season record/play suggest they would. The big lights are on then.
I want DeShields to develop & realize her full potential as a player--she has the potential to be one of the best ever & that would be great for women's bball. She is the one with the power to make that happen--no coach has that power. Not Holly, not Geno, not Waltz, not [insert coach thought to be better than Holly]. I hope she maximizes her talent potential.
As for that entire class leaving UNC, it is what it is. There were different factors in play for each player that left--some based on individual situations some based on the team situation. Things will be unsettled in Tar Heel land for some time to come. The 6 healthy players left right now give it their all every night. I'll support them. But all of that is subject for a different thread and I won't derail this thread further.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 01/20/16 5:10 pm ::: |
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| There were problems at UT long before DD showed up. There were problems in Pat's last couple of classes, in fact, and there hasn't been a whole lot of unity since probably 2011, so I wouldn't be too quick to lay the blame on DD at all. There is something else going on there and I'm not sure what it is.
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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 01/21/16 10:03 am ::: |
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| There have been chemistry, effort, consistency, and leadership issues ever since the arrival of the Baby Vols and the announcement of CPS's dementia, but the arrival of DD has really stirred the pot, and not in a good way. Her turnovers, frequent lack of effort, and the sulking captured repeatedly on camera are not positive influences on this team. I hope the parallels with UNC do not extend to an exodus of players after the season.
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Davis4632
Joined: 14 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 01/21/16 11:03 am ::: |
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| kool-aide wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| kool-aide wrote: |
Even HOF coaches sometimes have teams that develop interpersonal issues & bad chemistry. Holly & the assistant coaches are not the main problem with this iteration of the Lady Vols.
This is not the first time an NCAA team of DeShields led has shown up for some games and not others. Or refused to follow game plans. Or had chemistry issues. She may or may not be The Problem in both of those situations. But the comparisons between the two teams are there.
Her physical gifts & basketball skills could be so very good for women's bball, imo. I want her to develop on & off the court to fulfill that promise & potential. |
You blame everything on DD, someone you do not know personally? How do you know that the entire UNC team was not dysfunctional in some other way, since most of them fled for greener pastures? |
Rarely is only one person "to blame" in any situation. And as I said in my post, "She may or may not be The Problem in both of those situations." But, careful observers who watched UNC & UT play might notice a few common threads in the two teams' effort, play, and how they relate. When it comes to tournament time, I wouldn't be surprised if the Lady Vols go farther than their regular season record/play suggest they would. The big lights are on then.
I want DeShields to develop & realize her full potential as a player--she has the potential to be one of the best ever & that would be great for women's bball. She is the one with the power to make that happen--no coach has that power. Not Holly, not Geno, not Waltz, not [insert coach thought to be better than Holly]. I hope she maximizes her talent potential.
As for that entire class leaving UNC, it is what it is. There were different factors in play for each player that left--some based on individual situations some based on the team situation. Things will be unsettled in Tar Heel land for some time to come. The 6 healthy players left right now give it their all every night. I'll support them. But all of that is subject for a different thread and I won't derail this thread further. |
Jessica Washington left because concerns for playing time and wanting to be a starter. Allisha Gray and Stephanie Mavunga left because of concerns over possible NCAA sanctions being handed down. There was some chemistry issues that plague UNC when DD was there and wasn't there the next year. Maybe it was because Hatchell was back coaching the team, the team was a year older, or what but it was better not perfect.
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bullsky
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: 02/21/16 4:36 pm ::: |
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| After a loss today to a pretty bad LSU team (coached by a former Lady Vol), I am not sure how Tennessee can bring Holly Warlick back next season. This team is shutting down on her.
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zvyn3
Joined: 20 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 02/21/16 6:10 pm ::: |
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| bullsky wrote: |
| After a loss today to a pretty bad LSU team (coached by a former Lady Vol), I am not sure how Tennessee can bring Holly Warlick back next season. This team is shutting down on her. |
They'll bring her back because the administration does not care. And things will keep getting worse. Probably won't make the tournament next season.
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zvyn3
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 02/21/16 8:00 pm ::: |
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| It ain't happening. Heartless Dave and his buddy Jimmy the Cheek simply DO NOT CARE. Furthermore, they don't want to spend the money to buy her out. They'll wait out her contract and just not renew it, and probably then hire someone inferior. Dave would just as soon kill the program. He will just laugh at your petition.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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lynxmania
Joined: 18 Feb 2011
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 02/22/16 12:53 pm ::: |
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Why do you think he would "just as soon kill the program"? My sense is that you may not really believe that.
I wouldn't think Hart would want to eliminate women's basketball any more than he would want to eliminate baseball or gymnastics.
But that doesn't mean he cares about the program that much ...
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PRballer
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 02/22/16 5:58 pm ::: |
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| Diamond DeShields is a bigger problem for Tennessee than Holly Warlick is.
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zvyn3
Joined: 20 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 02/22/16 6:12 pm ::: |
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| PRballer wrote: |
| Diamond DeShields is a bigger problem for Tennessee than Holly Warlick is. |
You don't know what you're talking about. How come she wasn't a problem at North Carolina? Holly Warlick has ruined her just like she's ruined every player the past four years except Isabelle Harrison.
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summertime blues
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| Posted: 02/22/16 6:47 pm ::: |
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| zvyn3 wrote: |
| PRballer wrote: |
| Diamond DeShields is a bigger problem for Tennessee than Holly Warlick is. |
You don't know what you're talking about. How come she wasn't a problem at North Carolina? Holly Warlick has ruined her just like she's ruined every player the past four years except Isabelle Harrison. |
You really need to take your personal crusade and fold it five ways.......and I'll leave the rest of it to your imagination.
Holly hasn't "ruined" anyone, and DD isn't "the problem" either. There are a complex series of problems at Tennessee, STARTING with the unrealistic expectations of persons like yourself. It would take an entire book to list them all.
But just to list a few: Pat was a pioneer, and one of a kind, just like Geno is, just like Tara has been, just like Muffet is, and a few others. They are not, or will not be, replaced easily, by anyone, not even someone who has sat at their side and studied and absorbed everything they've taught.
It's never easy, some would say impossible, to follow a legend. Some would say it can't be done at all. By anyone. Others would say it's better to be the person following the person who follows the legend.
It's not easy to move up from assistant to head. It's an entirely different mindset. The longer you've been an assistant, the harder it is to switch mindsets, at least I would suspect that is the case, and I have been told so. I have also been told that it's more difficult to move up at the same place you've been for years, and is easier to go from assistant at one place to head at another.
Some of us, no matter how much others want us to be chiefs, or how much we might want to be, just make better Indians. (sorry for the political incorrectness) That's a fact, and there's no shame in it.
And switching gears, it's far from easy to be a "golden child"...to have your parents' expectations focused on you from Day One, have things fixed for you (even if you enjoy them) so you succeed, and then not want to disappoint anyone, parents, coaches, teammates, fans whoever; to play through pain, to keep on pushing, and still try to be who you are. I've seen that close up. Sometimes it's not very pretty. Sometimes it's really hard to watch. And sometimes you really want to cry for these kids.
There isn't anything as simple as you want to make it.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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PRballer
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 02/22/16 7:42 pm ::: |
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| zvyn3 wrote: |
| PRballer wrote: |
| Diamond DeShields is a bigger problem for Tennessee than Holly Warlick is. |
You don't know what you're talking about. How come she wasn't a problem at North Carolina? Holly Warlick has ruined her just like she's ruined every player the past four years except Isabelle Harrison. |
I never said she wasn't a problem at North Carolina. Pretty clear she was there, too.
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zvyn3
Joined: 20 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 02/22/16 8:18 pm ::: |
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| PRballer wrote: |
| zvyn3 wrote: |
| PRballer wrote: |
| Diamond DeShields is a bigger problem for Tennessee than Holly Warlick is. |
You don't know what you're talking about. How come she wasn't a problem at North Carolina? Holly Warlick has ruined her just like she's ruined every player the past four years except Isabelle Harrison. |
I never said she wasn't a problem at North Carolina. Pretty clear she was there, too. |
They made the Elite Eight with her. How have they done since?
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 02/22/16 8:39 pm ::: |
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| zvyn3 wrote: |
| PRballer wrote: |
| zvyn3 wrote: |
| PRballer wrote: |
| Diamond DeShields is a bigger problem for Tennessee than Holly Warlick is. |
You don't know what you're talking about. How come she wasn't a problem at North Carolina? Holly Warlick has ruined her just like she's ruined every player the past four years except Isabelle Harrison. |
I never said she wasn't a problem at North Carolina. Pretty clear she was there, too. |
They made the Elite Eight with her. How have they done since? |
I think everyone leaving except for maybe the kid who mops the floor might be as responsible as one single player leaving.
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 02/23/16 11:19 pm ::: |
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| Durantula wrote: |
The interesting thing to me is that Tennessee has no signees for 2016, so they are going to have this same nucleus next year. On paper before this season you could say they didn't need 2016s because they return so much (DeShields, Russell, Cooper, Nared, Middleton are all HS AA's) but now you see the struggles and you wonder how they will be in a year with no reinforcements coming. It was thought that Tennessee could just get a jump on 2017 where they were supposedly better positioned for some prospects, but given their struggles, one has to wonder whether 2017 will now be tougher to recruit the top players on their list.
Duke has a similar dynamic, they only have one signee for 2016, although they have Lexie Brown sitting out this year as a transfer, but that itself is a tough dynamic when you have two freshmen guards playing a lot (Lambert, Salvadores). If Brown plays big minutes, those two could see big drop in minutes, and then you wonder how that is handled internally. |
I don't think there will be three PG's on next year's Duke team. I also don't think there will be a 6'6 player on the team next year. Would not be at all surprised if both go to S.Carolina. Becca will stay to get her Duke degree and either go elsewhere for her fourth year of eligibility (if she wants a year of grad school) or move on to play overseas. She's being so badly used at Duke, I doubt she'll get drafted into the W but I see her playing her way into it after a year or two overseas. If I had to guess, I'd guess Belton is gone as well. She was nowhere near ready to play this year - she needs time to regain her health and her game.
Can you say "free fall?"
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Davis4632
Joined: 14 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 02/24/16 1:52 am ::: |
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| zvyn3 wrote: |
| PRballer wrote: |
| zvyn3 wrote: |
| PRballer wrote: |
| Diamond DeShields is a bigger problem for Tennessee than Holly Warlick is. |
You don't know what you're talking about. How come she wasn't a problem at North Carolina? Holly Warlick has ruined her just like she's ruined every player the past four years except Isabelle Harrison. |
I never said she wasn't a problem at North Carolina. Pretty clear she was there, too. |
They made the Elite Eight with her. How have they done since? |
That team argued, rolled eyes at each other and made it to the E8. I remember a UNC fan saying that they would rather have players that disliked each other and made it the FF than a bunch of players who liked each and got eliminated in the first round.
I'm not going to go off on Holly or Diamond. Diamond is the player who I thought she was at UNC and the Holly supporters will go down with the sinking ship despite seeing the huge iceberg in front of them.
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ripleydc
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: 02/24/16 8:28 am ::: |
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| Durantula wrote: |
| Duke has a similar dynamic, they only have one signee for 2016, although they have Lexie Brown sitting out this year as a transfer, but that itself is a tough dynamic when you have two freshmen guards playing a lot (Lambert, Salvadores). If Brown plays big minutes, those two could see big drop in minutes, and then you wonder how that is handled internally. |
I've been wondering about how Lexie will fit in next season. She's not someone who is happy sharing playing time -- or the limelight. IF there happen to be 3 PGs on the active roster next year, there's bound to be one or more player who is discontented with her role. If Lexie isn't the #1 PG option, you can expect chemistry problems.
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kool-aide
Joined: 09 Jun 2009
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| Posted: 02/24/16 10:34 am ::: |
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| zvyn3 wrote: |
| PRballer wrote: |
| zvyn3 wrote: |
| PRballer wrote: |
| Diamond DeShields is a bigger problem for Tennessee than Holly Warlick is. |
You don't know what you're talking about. How come she wasn't a problem at North Carolina? Holly Warlick has ruined her just like she's ruined every player the past four years except Isabelle Harrison. |
I never said she wasn't a problem at North Carolina. Pretty clear she was there, too. |
They made the Elite Eight with her. How have they done since? |
The next year, without DD, UNC lost the regional semi rematch to South Carolina 65-67. They'd beaten SC in the same round the year before. But quite a bit about the team was improved.
This year the record is poor due to 3 transfers & injury & all the rest.
PRballer is talking sense.
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NoDakSt
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 02/25/16 8:09 am ::: |
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| id be surprised if Holly is let go this year unless she herself steps down. There's a $h!+ shower in Knoxville these days and Lady Vol Basketball isn't near the top of the list of things with which administration will be spending it's time.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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summertime blues
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| Posted: 02/25/16 9:15 pm ::: |
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Heartless Dave had his presser. He said as much nothing as it's possible to say in 20 minutes. Most of it was about the football team and the lawsuit anyway. The guy mumbles worse than Ben Carson and says less.
Ain't nothing gonna happen.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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