RebKell's Junkie Boards

[ArtBest23]

As I expected, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeal has overruled the most radical portions of the district court's O'Bannon decision and upheld the validity of amateurism rules.

The 9th Circuit affirmed the portion of the order permitting schools to pay up to the "full cost of attendance" as part of a scholarship, basically because the NCAA agrees that payments up to the cost of attendance do not affect a player's amateur status. But they struck down the $5000 cash payment because it would be contrary to being an amateur.

"But in finding that paying students cash compensation would promote
amateurism as effectively as not paying them, the district court ignored that not paying student-athletes is precisely what makes them amateurs. . . .

The difference between offering student-athletes education-related compensation and offering them cash sums untethered to educational expenses is not minor; it is a quantum leap."

Those who thought that the NCAA was going to be blown up by means of an antitrust suit were dreaming. Judge Wilkin's open hostility towards the NCAA was not likely to be shared by the Court of Appeals, the Supreme Court, or Congress.

The Full Cost of Attendance stipends are a good thing. Full scholarships ought to be full. But if you want to get paid to play sports, become a professional. Leave amateur college sports alone.

You can read the entire 73 pages here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxM4wdtZ5uI-V3BZN1NaZTl6WUk/view

[ClayK]

If you believe college sports are amateur sports, I have some old subprime mortgages I'd love to talk to you about ...

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[dtrain34]

Clay's right.

Even women's basketball, which below the Top 10 level is a colossal money drag on every D1 institution, has been professionalized by both the demands on the athlete's time and simply because per Title IX it has to be "big time" as an auxiliary of the department which houses the true "pro" sports of MBB and football.

[ArtBest23]

You can certainly make up some new term "professionalized" but of course that has nothing to do with anything.

"Big time" does not equal "professional". Nor is "number of hours invested" any test of amateurism.

As I quoted above, the court correctly stated "not paying student-athletes is precisely what makes them amateurs."

It's really that simple.

[PUmatty]

[pilight]

Color me shocked that the court sided with the rich, powerful exploiters over the poor, powerless exploited


EDIT

After reading the decision, it doesn't look like a win for the NCAA. The appeals court found them in violation of the Sherman act, just like the original court did.

_________________
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I ain't got a home

[dtrain34]

Since words have definitions, I'll give you your definition of amateur and simply remind that the sporting definition of amateur comes to us from 19th Century England where country gentlemen wanted to win the gold medals, so banned professionals who would put a lot of time into their sports and also tradesmen whose work with their bodies might give them an edge.

A year-round commitment to a sport (in exchange for scholarship dollars, in no way shape or form playing out of the goodness of one's heart) that either plays in a more commercialized atmosphere than its professional counterpart (UConn, et al) or as a federally-mandated balance to the men's sports that play in an atmosphere as commercialized as its professional counterpart (Alabama, Florida, Oregon, etc.) is not Molly and Betty playing in some every-girl-plays league down at the Y.

So you can parse the verbiage and say CWBB is amateur, but it ain't pure, it ain't non-commercial and no one outside of D3 is playing for free.

As a further reality check, women who go from American college basketball to European professional leagues almost universally state the time commitment and physical demands are far less overseas. So which is more of a "job", killing yourself 20 hours a week, 40 weeks of the year for Old U or practicing three times and playing twice in Europe.

[ArtBest23]

[ArtBest23]

[dtrain34]

[
Bobby Jones winning everything in sight as an amateur in the 20s and 30s is not "Molly and Betty playing in some every-girl-plays league down at the Y" either. He wasn't a weekend golfer. There have always been "big time" amateur sports. Time commitment has zero to do with it

High school kids work year round on their sport too. You going to tell me they're pros too?

There is only one real definition and it's really simple. You get paid, you're a pro.[/quote]

Scholarships ARE pay, plain and simple. Explain how they are not?

I was told by one D1 women's coach that when his players get lazy, he will turn his wrist over as if dumping fries from bubbling grease:

"You can work for me or you can work for McDonalds to pay your way through school" is the message.

There's verbiage and there's what's really going on.

Meanwhile, Bobby Jones was akin to those English gentlemen I was referring to earlier. An aristocrat who would not have liked the idea of a Tiger Woods, a mixed race son of a career soldier somehow challenging him from a smelly muni in godforsaken California. His ilk of amateurs wanted to continue playing against others of means only.

[ClayK]

If college sports were truly amateur, presumably no one would bother charging admission. After all, everyone's in it for the love ...

And coaches and ADs would work for free as well.

College sports is a big business, and it is a reasonably professional one. The biggest difference between it and other businesses its size is that the majority of its employees are not compensated in cash, and some not at all.

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[ArtBest23]

There's a non sequitur if I ever heard one.

Do you have to buy a ticket to high school basketball and football games?

To the high school play or band concert?

To the US Amateur golf tournament?

Oh I guess they're all professionals.

[cthskzfn]

[ArtBest23]

[ClayK]

[ArtBest23]

[purduefanatic]

Here in Indiana, I'm not sure I know of any high schools that don't charge admission for basketball and football games. There are also usually tickets that have to be purchased for the band's Christmas show or the Christmas Choir show. When I have gone to high school basketball games in other states there has pretty much been an admission charge at all of them, doesn't matter if it's in Chicago or Boston, Philadelphia or Phoenix. Man, I wish they were free.

[ClayK]

I would say most high school basketball and football games in California cost money to attend. Most other sports are free, though volleyball is moving up the ladder.

As for "moving the goalposts," I would think using high school athletics to make a point about college athletics would fall under the same category.

I have no particular desire to "destroy amateur sports." I do, however, dislike the hypocritical pretense that college sports is all about student-athletes and their "amateur" status. Let's just describe it as it really is, accept for that, and make decisions based on the reality of the situation, not some ideal.

For me, the biggest issue is that the adults -- who get paid very nice salaries and have much, much greater freedom of movement -- are treated much different than the students -- who are just as much a part, if not a bigger part, of a huge industry as the adults.

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[ArtBest23]