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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 8407
Location: Northfield, MN
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 Posted: 10/01/15 4:23 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Nixtreefan wrote: |
| Thanks for posting about this and supplying the link. I had an epiphany about 7 years ago after hearing about so much that went on behind closed doors at the college level that I have always tried to see the athletes side. I don't see the need for keeping players at schools where they feel uncomfortable and why would anyone want to keep them there, other than to wield power. So why not allow players to go where they want. |
Why? For the same reason these rules, and the entire LOI process, were put in place in the first place.
Because if you don't have restrictions, some coaches will try to abuse the system and recruit players right off other team's rosters.
Despite the view some here seem to have that the whole system was simply designed to screw the athletes, it actually was created to protect schools from unscrupulous competing schools and coaches. |
So they want to protect schools at the cost of the student. What a surprise. It's one step up from saying "we are doing this for your own good..."
But really, what we have here is a false dilemma. It is not like this is the only way to prevent unscrupulous coaches from recruiting off other teams. If that was the only (or even biggest) reason for this rule they would come up with something that restricts coaches rather than something that restricts the students. Something like tampering rules that have serious consequences--consequences so dire that no coach would dare break it.
No, the rule also exists because it is not in the interest of the schools to allow easy transfers for students. The Program is obviously more important than the individual needs of the students.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
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| Posted: 10/01/15 6:51 pm ::: |
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| Nixtreefan wrote: |
If you are going to make that kind of assertion, where and who are these coaches doing all these things? I also don't see how if these coaches are so shady why any rules would stop them. With all the recruiting, the length of the season, where on earth would they get the time to do all this shady stuff you refer to? It sounds like the "Storm is coming" in CA when we get an inch of rain.
It just sounds like paranoia to me. Who else in the real world has this type of power over individuals, let alone naive 18 year olds. |
I can't help it if you don't know any history. The LOI process is the forerunner of these transfer rules and was a creation of the old South West Conference in response to widespread poaching.
I don't really give a damn if you choose to remain ignorant and simply insult people.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 14109
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| Posted: 10/13/15 5:53 pm ::: |
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| justintyme wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Nixtreefan wrote: |
| Thanks for posting about this and supplying the link. I had an epiphany about 7 years ago after hearing about so much that went on behind closed doors at the college level that I have always tried to see the athletes side. I don't see the need for keeping players at schools where they feel uncomfortable and why would anyone want to keep them there, other than to wield power. So why not allow players to go where they want. |
Why? For the same reason these rules, and the entire LOI process, were put in place in the first place.
Because if you don't have restrictions, some coaches will try to abuse the system and recruit players right off other team's rosters.
Despite the view some here seem to have that the whole system was simply designed to screw the athletes, it actually was created to protect schools from unscrupulous competing schools and coaches. |
So they want to protect schools at the cost of the student. What a surprise. It's one step up from saying "we are doing this for your own good..."
But really, what we have here is a false dilemma. It is not like this is the only way to prevent unscrupulous coaches from recruiting off other teams. If that was the only (or even biggest) reason for this rule they would come up with something that restricts coaches rather than something that restricts the students. Something like tampering rules that have serious consequences--consequences so dire that no coach would dare break it.
No, the rule also exists because it is not in the interest of the schools to allow easy transfers for students. The Program is obviously more important than the individual needs of the students. |
Presumably it would/could be a big issue in football and possibly men's basketball, though with most big time players being one and done now, not sure how much of an issue it would be these days, but I don't see a problem with women's basketball going the way of most other NCAA sports and allow a one time transfer exception rule. In all sports except for baseball, men's and women's basketball, men's ice hockey and football at the Division I level, there is a one-time transfer exception, which basically means if the current school gives permission the athlete does not have to sit out a year and if the current school (first school) doesn't submit a written response within 7 business days of the written request for a release the default position is a release.
This rule can be found at the bottom of page 21 in the link below.
http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/TGONLINE2014.pdf
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Dennis1361
Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 248
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| Posted: 10/19/15 9:34 am ::: |
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| Abuse is simple, if you maynot do it as a classroom teacher then you may not do it as a coach
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Shmermerer1
Joined: 04 Aug 2014
Posts: 284
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| Posted: 10/19/15 10:36 am ::: |
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| GEF34 wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Nixtreefan wrote: |
| Thanks for posting about this and supplying the link. I had an epiphany about 7 years ago after hearing about so much that went on behind closed doors at the college level that I have always tried to see the athletes side. I don't see the need for keeping players at schools where they feel uncomfortable and why would anyone want to keep them there, other than to wield power. So why not allow players to go where they want. |
Why? For the same reason these rules, and the entire LOI process, were put in place in the first place.
Because if you don't have restrictions, some coaches will try to abuse the system and recruit players right off other team's rosters.
Despite the view some here seem to have that the whole system was simply designed to screw the athletes, it actually was created to protect schools from unscrupulous competing schools and coaches. |
So they want to protect schools at the cost of the student. What a surprise. It's one step up from saying "we are doing this for your own good..."
But really, what we have here is a false dilemma. It is not like this is the only way to prevent unscrupulous coaches from recruiting off other teams. If that was the only (or even biggest) reason for this rule they would come up with something that restricts coaches rather than something that restricts the students. Something like tampering rules that have serious consequences--consequences so dire that no coach would dare break it.
No, the rule also exists because it is not in the interest of the schools to allow easy transfers for students. The Program is obviously more important than the individual needs of the students. |
Presumably it would/could be a big issue in football and possibly men's basketball, though with most big time players being one and done now, not sure how much of an issue it would be these days, but I don't see a problem with women's basketball going the way of most other NCAA sports and allow a one time transfer exception rule. In all sports except for baseball, men's and women's basketball, men's ice hockey and football at the Division I level, there is a one-time transfer exception, which basically means if the current school gives permission the athlete does not have to sit out a year and if the current school (first school) doesn't submit a written response within 7 business days of the written request for a release the default position is a release.
This rule can be found at the bottom of page 21 in the link below.
http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/TGONLINE2014.pdf |
So there is a one time transfer rule in other sports. I was fortunate to receive one; however, the school has to grant it to you. You don't just automatically get it. Before I transferred to DePaul, my previous school waited until the very last minute to grant me the release. Otherwise I would have had to sit out a year.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7842
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 10/19/15 7:38 pm ::: |
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| Speaking of which, shmermerer, was DePaul one of the teams that was a beneficiary of a transfer from Illinois this year?
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18030
Location: Queens
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 14109
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| Posted: 10/21/15 12:15 am ::: |
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| Shmermerer1 wrote: |
| GEF34 wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Nixtreefan wrote: |
| Thanks for posting about this and supplying the link. I had an epiphany about 7 years ago after hearing about so much that went on behind closed doors at the college level that I have always tried to see the athletes side. I don't see the need for keeping players at schools where they feel uncomfortable and why would anyone want to keep them there, other than to wield power. So why not allow players to go where they want. |
Why? For the same reason these rules, and the entire LOI process, were put in place in the first place.
Because if you don't have restrictions, some coaches will try to abuse the system and recruit players right off other team's rosters.
Despite the view some here seem to have that the whole system was simply designed to screw the athletes, it actually was created to protect schools from unscrupulous competing schools and coaches. |
So they want to protect schools at the cost of the student. What a surprise. It's one step up from saying "we are doing this for your own good..."
But really, what we have here is a false dilemma. It is not like this is the only way to prevent unscrupulous coaches from recruiting off other teams. If that was the only (or even biggest) reason for this rule they would come up with something that restricts coaches rather than something that restricts the students. Something like tampering rules that have serious consequences--consequences so dire that no coach would dare break it.
No, the rule also exists because it is not in the interest of the schools to allow easy transfers for students. The Program is obviously more important than the individual needs of the students. |
Presumably it would/could be a big issue in football and possibly men's basketball, though with most big time players being one and done now, not sure how much of an issue it would be these days, but I don't see a problem with women's basketball going the way of most other NCAA sports and allow a one time transfer exception rule. In all sports except for baseball, men's and women's basketball, men's ice hockey and football at the Division I level, there is a one-time transfer exception, which basically means if the current school gives permission the athlete does not have to sit out a year and if the current school (first school) doesn't submit a written response within 7 business days of the written request for a release the default position is a release.
This rule can be found at the bottom of page 21 in the link below.
http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/TGONLINE2014.pdf |
So there is a one time transfer rule in other sports. I was fortunate to receive one; however, the school has to grant it to you. You don't just automatically get it. Before I transferred to DePaul, my previous school waited until the very last minute to grant me the release. Otherwise I would have had to sit out a year. |
The default position is a release and the school has 7 days to respond, if the school doesn't respond within the 7 days the student-athlete is released and can play without sitting out.
I don't know how long ago you transferred and how recently the rule has changed, but the rule sounds differently now than how it was for you and maybe I am not understand your use of the phrase "very last minute" do you mean like on day 7 or they had longer than 7 days to reply?
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7842
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 10/22/15 9:22 pm ::: |
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What was the total number of transfers out of Illinois and where did they all end up? Queenie has mentioned that Grant and Coleman went to DePaul. I seem to recall (perhaps incorrectly) that someone went to Loyola-Chicago.
Anyone?
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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allenleavell
Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Posts: 677
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| Posted: 10/22/15 9:39 pm ::: |
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| Yep these number are huge. Kids are not taking that bs from coaches. It okay to be tough but know kids will leave because they have options. I know my kids will always have options. Talk to a college coach this summer he said Coaches don't always be right, especially if kids have options. He said I will make sure my kid walk on and have a academics schollie not having to deal with the bull.
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Shmermerer1
Joined: 04 Aug 2014
Posts: 284
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| Posted: 10/22/15 11:18 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
What was the total number of transfers out of Illinois and where did they all end up? Queenie has mentioned that Grant and Coleman went to DePaul. I seem to recall (perhaps incorrectly) that someone went to Loyola-Chicago.
Anyone? |
Taylor Gleasom transferred to Oakland.
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