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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 07/08/15 7:45 pm ::: |
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CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
PUmatty wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
While both situations are unfortunate, there are *huge* differences between Romero and Nichols.
Romero was from Spain, who came over to play for Deb Patterson. KState fired Patterson and brought in a new coach. Romero sought her release almost immediately.
Nichols was recruited by Josh Pastner and played for him for a few years. Pastner is still the head coach; there has been no coaching change. Nichols was named a captain of the team for 2015-2016. Now it is July and he is asking for his release. |
I fail to see how any of those differences are material to the basic issue. Who cares where he's from. Frankly I have less sympathy for a foreign student who has been handed an opportunity to play basketball and a free education in the US.
He's not asking for the one year sit out period to be waived. He just wants to talk to other schools about transfering.
Sounds like just some weak excuses for answering "no" to my question " I wonder if there will be the same media and public outcry when it happens to a man at Memphis as what Kansas St faced when it did it to Romero."
I expected as much. |
I didn't have much interest in the outcry over Romero either. Both Kansas State and Memphis are following the NCAA rules. Don't like the rules, fight with the NCAA, not the schools that are following them. The situation sucks, but it is the situation that these athletes voluntarily agree to.
I am still baffled by the NCAA decision to let Romero play without sitting out a year. |
Actually, those factors make a *tremendous* difference in the situations, first of all.
Second, KState played games with the appeal process and waffled back and forth. Nichols just informed the university of his decision.
You are looking to make a gender issue, so you reached the conclusion before the process has truly commenced. |
Excuse me but when the coach, the AD, and the University President have all made thrir decision, it's far past being "truly commenced". The outrage about KSt was well underway at this same stage of the Romero process.
You want to claim its different. It isn't. Except that it's not some sweet innocent little Spanish-speaking girl.
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18032 Location: Queens
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11155
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Posted: 07/09/15 12:41 pm ::: |
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summertime blues wrote: |
I read an article yesterday which stated that ONE-THIRD of all college students will transfer schools at least once in their career. When you consider that, the number of athletes who transfer is actually relatively small. The article did point out that some number of these are transfers from two-year to four-year schools, but not as many as you would think. Even allowing for that, the percentage of athletes transferring is smaller than that of ordinary students transferring. It just looks large because of their profiles, IMO. |
X________
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 07/09/15 12:59 pm ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
summertime blues wrote: |
I read an article yesterday which stated that ONE-THIRD of all college students will transfer schools at least once in their career. When you consider that, the number of athletes who transfer is actually relatively small. The article did point out that some number of these are transfers from two-year to four-year schools, but not as many as you would think. Even allowing for that, the percentage of athletes transferring is smaller than that of ordinary students transferring. It just looks large because of their profiles, IMO. |
X________ |
Comparing transfer rates from community colleges, local commuter schools, and thousands of tiny colleges does not seem particularly relevant to a discussion of the major universities that play Div I sports. What's the transfer rate at those schools? And how many of them are due to not being able to afford the tuition and costs, an issue that is irrelevant to athletes on full scholarship?
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18371 Location: Phoenix
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Posted: 07/09/15 4:18 pm ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
Excuse me but when the coach, the AD, and the University President have all made thrir decision, it's far past being "truly commenced". The outrage about KSt was well underway at this same stage of the Romero process.
You want to claim its different. It isn't. Except that it's not some sweet innocent little Spanish-speaking girl. |
There were multiple appeals filed with respect to Romero, and it dragged out for months.
There was also a change in the coach, a major difference.
With Nichols, this *just* happened. You act like it has been going on for months.
I am not claiming it is different; I have, in fact, demonstrated it is different.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 07/09/15 4:43 pm ::: |
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CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
There were multiple appeals filed with respect to Romero, and it dragged out for months.
There was also a change in the coach, a major difference.
With Nichols, this *just* happened. You act like it has been going on for months.
I am not claiming it is different; I have, in fact, demonstrated it is different. |
No, actually you haven't. You keep saying it's different because it "dragged out for months." But of course that ignores that the outrage began as soon as it became public, not after it had "dragged out."
She requested her release in April. The threads, the tweets, and discussion here and in the press began almost immediately. It was then at the exact same stage as this Memphis player. No difference. Over a month later, the outrage continued and K St was still denying appeals and claiming the decision was final. It was about May 27 before they relented. The outrage didn't start then. They relented because of the six weeks of outrage tand pressure that had already occurred.
The outrage didn't start after it had been going on for months. It didn't start after the multiple appeals. It started when it had "just happened" with Romero. It's the same thing. Just admit you don't care about the same thing happening to this guy.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 07/09/15 4:57 pm ::: |
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BTW the only other "distinction" being provided is that "well with Romero the coach changed." I don't know why this guy chose to leave Memphis, but whatever it is, it is at least as valid as that reason. Indeed, "the coach changed" is one of the few things specifically spelled out in the NLOI as NOT being a basis for special treatment. When the player signs the NLOI, he or she agrees:
"If Coach Leaves. I understand that I have signed this NLI with the institution and not for a particular sport or individual. For example, if the coach leaves the institution or the sports program, I remain bound by the provisions of this NLI."
So it may be a "difference" but it's an irrelevant one and doesn't make her transfer the least bit more legitimate than his.
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NoDakSt
Joined: 26 Oct 2005 Posts: 4929
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Posted: 07/09/15 6:00 pm ::: |
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Heather Bowe transfers from Vandy to Iowa State.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18371 Location: Phoenix
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Posted: 07/10/15 12:45 pm ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
BTW the only other "distinction" being provided is that "well with Romero the coach changed." I don't know why this guy chose to leave Memphis, but whatever it is, it is at least as valid as that reason. Indeed, "the coach changed" is one of the few things specifically spelled out in the NLOI as NOT being a basis for special treatment. When the player signs the NLOI, he or she agrees:
"If Coach Leaves. I understand that I have signed this NLI with the institution and not for a particular sport or individual. For example, if the coach leaves the institution or the sports program, I remain bound by the provisions of this NLI."
So it may be a "difference" but it's an irrelevant one and doesn't make her transfer the least bit more legitimate than his. |
MASSIVE difference between getting released from a Letter of Intent and transferring when you are already at the school.
That is a HUGE distinction that you missed.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18371 Location: Phoenix
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Posted: 07/10/15 12:47 pm ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
There were multiple appeals filed with respect to Romero, and it dragged out for months.
There was also a change in the coach, a major difference.
With Nichols, this *just* happened. You act like it has been going on for months.
I am not claiming it is different; I have, in fact, demonstrated it is different. |
No, actually you haven't. You keep saying it's different because it "dragged out for months." But of course that ignores that the outrage began as soon as it became public, not after it had "dragged out."
She requested her release in April. The threads, the tweets, and discussion here and in the press began almost immediately. It was then at the exact same stage as this Memphis player. No difference. Over a month later, the outrage continued and K St was still denying appeals and claiming the decision was final. It was about May 27 before they relented. The outrage didn't start then. They relented because of the six weeks of outrage tand pressure that had already occurred.
The outrage didn't start after it had been going on for months. It didn't start after the multiple appeals. It started when it had "just happened" with Romero. It's the same thing. Just admit you don't care about the same thing happening to this guy. |
The outrage started after time had passed. It was NOT right away as you claim.
Memphis granted a conditional release to Nichols, by the way (announced today). And while it limits transferring to conference opponents and teams on the 2015-16 schedule (unless he pays his own way for the one redshirt year), his main two schools in pursuit of him - Notre Dame and Marquette - or not on that list (meaning he is not limited in transferring there).
This entire situation, from the time it was made public to the time the conditional release was granted, took THREE DAYS.
But keep telling yourself the Nichols and Romero situations are exactly the same...
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 07/10/15 2:13 pm ::: |
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CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
There were multiple appeals filed with respect to Romero, and it dragged out for months.
There was also a change in the coach, a major difference.
With Nichols, this *just* happened. You act like it has been going on for months.
I am not claiming it is different; I have, in fact, demonstrated it is different. |
No, actually you haven't. You keep saying it's different because it "dragged out for months." But of course that ignores that the outrage began as soon as it became public, not after it had "dragged out."
She requested her release in April. The threads, the tweets, and discussion here and in the press began almost immediately. It was then at the exact same stage as this Memphis player. No difference. Over a month later, the outrage continued and K St was still denying appeals and claiming the decision was final. It was about May 27 before they relented. The outrage didn't start then. They relented because of the six weeks of outrage tand pressure that had already occurred.
The outrage didn't start after it had been going on for months. It didn't start after the multiple appeals. It started when it had "just happened" with Romero. It's the same thing. Just admit you don't care about the same thing happening to this guy. |
The outrage started after time had passed. It was NOT right away as you claim.
Memphis granted a conditional release to Nichols, by the way (announced today). And while it limits transferring to conference opponents and teams on the 2015-16 schedule (unless he pays his own way for the one redshirt year), his main two schools in pursuit of him - Notre Dame and Marquette - or not on that list (meaning he is not limited in transferring there).
This entire situation, from the time it was made public to the time the conditional release was granted, took THREE DAYS.
But keep telling yourself the Nichols and Romero situations are exactly the same... |
Actually, it did, and it is.
BTW, you've also wanted to try and intimate there was something unwarranted or undeserving about him wanting to transfer. Pastner had a highly regarded six man recruiting class in 2013. Nichols is the FIFTH of the six to transfer. Think there might be some valid reasons why people are bailing out? And those reasons are more valid than "the coach changed."
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18371 Location: Phoenix
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Posted: 07/10/15 3:53 pm ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
There were multiple appeals filed with respect to Romero, and it dragged out for months.
There was also a change in the coach, a major difference.
With Nichols, this *just* happened. You act like it has been going on for months.
I am not claiming it is different; I have, in fact, demonstrated it is different. |
No, actually you haven't. You keep saying it's different because it "dragged out for months." But of course that ignores that the outrage began as soon as it became public, not after it had "dragged out."
She requested her release in April. The threads, the tweets, and discussion here and in the press began almost immediately. It was then at the exact same stage as this Memphis player. No difference. Over a month later, the outrage continued and K St was still denying appeals and claiming the decision was final. It was about May 27 before they relented. The outrage didn't start then. They relented because of the six weeks of outrage tand pressure that had already occurred.
The outrage didn't start after it had been going on for months. It didn't start after the multiple appeals. It started when it had "just happened" with Romero. It's the same thing. Just admit you don't care about the same thing happening to this guy. |
The outrage started after time had passed. It was NOT right away as you claim.
Memphis granted a conditional release to Nichols, by the way (announced today). And while it limits transferring to conference opponents and teams on the 2015-16 schedule (unless he pays his own way for the one redshirt year), his main two schools in pursuit of him - Notre Dame and Marquette - or not on that list (meaning he is not limited in transferring there).
This entire situation, from the time it was made public to the time the conditional release was granted, took THREE DAYS.
But keep telling yourself the Nichols and Romero situations are exactly the same... |
Actually, it did, and it is.
BTW, you've also wanted to try and intimate there was something unwarranted or undeserving about him wanting to transfer. Pastner had a highly regarded six man recruiting class in 2013. Nichols is the FIFTH of the six to transfer. Think there might be some valid reasons why people are bailing out? And those reasons are more valid than "the coach changed." |
Actually, I have done so such thing.
You have a conclusion in mind about the two situations and making it a gender issue and are backtracking to try and support it.
Except what *actually* happened does not support your conclusion. Your feelings are not facts.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 07/10/15 4:23 pm ::: |
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CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
There were multiple appeals filed with respect to Romero, and it dragged out for months.
There was also a change in the coach, a major difference.
With Nichols, this *just* happened. You act like it has been going on for months.
I am not claiming it is different; I have, in fact, demonstrated it is different. |
No, actually you haven't. You keep saying it's different because it "dragged out for months." But of course that ignores that the outrage began as soon as it became public, not after it had "dragged out."
She requested her release in April. The threads, the tweets, and discussion here and in the press began almost immediately. It was then at the exact same stage as this Memphis player. No difference. Over a month later, the outrage continued and K St was still denying appeals and claiming the decision was final. It was about May 27 before they relented. The outrage didn't start then. They relented because of the six weeks of outrage tand pressure that had already occurred.
The outrage didn't start after it had been going on for months. It didn't start after the multiple appeals. It started when it had "just happened" with Romero. It's the same thing. Just admit you don't care about the same thing happening to this guy. |
The outrage started after time had passed. It was NOT right away as you claim.
Memphis granted a conditional release to Nichols, by the way (announced today). And while it limits transferring to conference opponents and teams on the 2015-16 schedule (unless he pays his own way for the one redshirt year), his main two schools in pursuit of him - Notre Dame and Marquette - or not on that list (meaning he is not limited in transferring there).
This entire situation, from the time it was made public to the time the conditional release was granted, took THREE DAYS.
But keep telling yourself the Nichols and Romero situations are exactly the same... |
Actually, it did, and it is.
BTW, you've also wanted to try and intimate there was something unwarranted or undeserving about him wanting to transfer. Pastner had a highly regarded six man recruiting class in 2013. Nichols is the FIFTH of the six to transfer. Think there might be some valid reasons why people are bailing out? And those reasons are more valid than "the coach changed." |
Actually, I have done so such thing.
You have a conclusion in mind about the two situations and making it a gender issue and are backtracking to try and support it.
Except what *actually* happened does not support your conclusion. Your feelings are not facts. |
Last post by me on the subject. I'm glad he gets to move on.
I haven't backtracked a bit. My position has remained consistent. I think you know that perfectly well.
There's no material difference in the two situations. However I'm not surprised in the least that you are desperately trying to create one. Indeed, yours is precisely the response I expected when I initially posted. Thanks for proving my point. Bye.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18371 Location: Phoenix
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Posted: 07/10/15 6:28 pm ::: |
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Only you think there is no material difference between the two situations. That is your conclusion, so you are going back to justify that. Nothing supports your position, plain and simple.
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PRballer
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 2544
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Posted: 07/21/15 4:28 pm ::: |
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No link to share, but another Nebraska transfer according to Hoopfeed.
Chandler Smith, a rising soph from Washington, wants to be closer to home. According to her Nebraska bio she was also considering Gonzaga, Arizona State, and Baylor.
Given this, she should be a Zag and that's a nice grab for Fortier's program. Very curious to see if she can sustain Graves' success and I imagine a local kid who had trouble with injuries/getting of the bench at a Big 12 school will do well with a year off and then have 3 years to develop in the WCC.
My outside opinion: a good Gonzaga program is good for WCBB in general.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8231 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 07/21/15 7:08 pm ::: |
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PUmatty wrote: |
I am still baffled by the NCAA decision to let Romero play without sitting out a year. |
As am I.
I've thought several times of contacting the FSU SID to find out how they accomplished that -- specifically, what NCAA Bylaw they successfully exploited. |
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Shmermerer1
Joined: 04 Aug 2014 Posts: 284
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Posted: 07/23/15 11:31 am ::: |
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Shakeya Graves transferring from DePaul to Oakland. Best of luck to her!!
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PRballer
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 2544
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Posted: 07/23/15 2:06 pm ::: |
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PRballer wrote: |
No link to share, but another Nebraska transfer according to Hoopfeed.
Chandler Smith, a rising soph from Washington, wants to be closer to home. According to her Nebraska bio she was also considering Gonzaga, Arizona State, and Baylor.
Given this, she should be a Zag and that's a nice grab for Fortier's program. Very curious to see if she can sustain Graves' success and I imagine a local kid who had trouble with injuries/getting of the bench at a Big 12 school will do well with a year off and then have 3 years to develop in the WCC.
My outside opinion: a good Gonzaga program is good for WCBB in general. |
Confirmed. I love being right!
http://www.gozags.com/sports/w-baskbl/spec-rel/072315aab.html
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7851 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 07/24/15 9:18 am ::: |
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Amber Porter, 6-0 forward and A-Sun ROTY for the 2013-14 season, has transferred from Stetson to JMU. Amber is from Woodbridge, VA, so she will be closer to home. She will have to sit out the upcoming season, but it's a nice get for Kenny Brooks and the Dukes.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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blaase22
Joined: 28 Mar 2011 Posts: 4163 Location: Paradise
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Posted: 07/31/15 12:18 am ::: |
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GlennMacGrady wrote: |
PUmatty wrote: |
I am still baffled by the NCAA decision to let Romero play without sitting out a year. |
As am I.
I've thought several times of contacting the FSU SID to find out how they accomplished that -- specifically, what NCAA Bylaw they successfully exploited. |
I kind of wish they followed their rules and made her sit out, It would have made that 2018 draft even more bananas.
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scfastpitch
Joined: 21 Dec 2009 Posts: 616
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Posted: 07/31/15 9:09 pm ::: |
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Brandon Clay @BrandonClayPSB 2m2 minutes ago
BREAKING: Rising Jr. Stephanie Mavunga to Ohio State after leaving UNC. Was a #NaismithWatch candidate in '14-15.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7851 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 08/01/15 12:06 pm ::: |
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By the way Art, since you were so incensed over this, I'd like to point out that he was given his release rather speedily, and on July 26, it was announced that he'd committed to and been accepted by UVA.
http://wric.com/2015/07/26/uva-mens-basketball-adds-memphis-transfer-austin-nichols/
A little premature outrage maybe? False comparison?
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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PRballer
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 2544
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Posted: 08/05/15 7:32 pm ::: |
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I was poking around the Texas Tech site to peek at the roster, given all their transfers and the recent Recee Caldwell news. Looks like Taylor Agler is not listed on the roster currently, but the other transfers announced (Jada Terry and her IU teammate Larryn Brooks) are on the roster along with Caldwell.
Anyone know what's up?
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patsweetpat
Joined: 14 Jul 2010 Posts: 2313 Location: Culver City, CA
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Posted: 08/05/15 9:08 pm ::: |
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Recee's loss will be felt here in L.A. this season, most certainly. Handles and a shot are a potent combo. Best of luck to her (and to her father too) in their new Red Raider roles.
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lynxmania
Joined: 18 Feb 2011 Posts: 10697 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: 08/05/15 10:07 pm ::: |
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PRballer wrote: |
I was poking around the Texas Tech site to peek at the roster, given all their transfers and the recent Recee Caldwell news. Looks like Taylor Agler is not listed on the roster currently, but the other transfers announced (Jada Terry and her IU teammate Larryn Brooks) are on the roster along with Caldwell.
Anyone know what's up? |
Headed to Ohio University now.
_________________ "stormeo don't miss"
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