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Durantula
Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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 Posted: 05/08/15 10:10 pm ::: |
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| GEF34 wrote: |
| dtrain34 wrote: |
| bballjunkie wrote: |
It also has nothing to do with where you come from and I disagree with the "hotbed" argument above.
USA is about putting a team together that will play selflessly as a team where each of the parts fit together. Some players may seem all that going one on one in club but have absolutely no idea of how to play the game of basketball in a team setting. |
So, let me get this straight: USA Basketball has scouted all 50 states so well that it not only knows who can play but which players have been selfish on their club teams or "don't know how to play the game of basketball?" And this fits the thousands of players in 90 percent of California, all of Washington and all of Oregon? (or whatever area has been passed over in more recent selections, I only use the 2010 group as an example.)
Somehow I doubt that. Many of the most "efficient" or glue type players who would fit exactly the profile you are talking about NEVER get any sort of All-This or All-That recognition before excelling in college. I would contend that these are the very players who USAB could benefit from taking a look at and "discovering." |
I have a serious question, do you know how many people, if any have turned down invites and what states or areas do those people come from? It has been published people turn down invites all the time, USA Basketball doesn't public everyone they invite, just those that accept, and it only gets out that a person has turned down an invite when that person or a representative of that person comes out and says so and so turned down an invite for this reason or that reason. I don't know who, if anyone has turned down an invite, but I don't see it out of the realm of possibility that a lot of people would for personal reason as it is done all the time at every level. |
I think its more common in college because of summer school. In high school the demand to go to these tryouts is pretty big, they attract 100 or more people who pay their own way just to try out.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 05/08/15 10:45 pm ::: |
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| Durantula wrote: |
| GEF34 wrote: |
| dtrain34 wrote: |
| bballjunkie wrote: |
It also has nothing to do with where you come from and I disagree with the "hotbed" argument above.
USA is about putting a team together that will play selflessly as a team where each of the parts fit together. Some players may seem all that going one on one in club but have absolutely no idea of how to play the game of basketball in a team setting. |
So, let me get this straight: USA Basketball has scouted all 50 states so well that it not only knows who can play but which players have been selfish on their club teams or "don't know how to play the game of basketball?" And this fits the thousands of players in 90 percent of California, all of Washington and all of Oregon? (or whatever area has been passed over in more recent selections, I only use the 2010 group as an example.)
Somehow I doubt that. Many of the most "efficient" or glue type players who would fit exactly the profile you are talking about NEVER get any sort of All-This or All-That recognition before excelling in college. I would contend that these are the very players who USAB could benefit from taking a look at and "discovering." |
I have a serious question, do you know how many people, if any have turned down invites and what states or areas do those people come from? It has been published people turn down invites all the time, USA Basketball doesn't public everyone they invite, just those that accept, and it only gets out that a person has turned down an invite when that person or a representative of that person comes out and says so and so turned down an invite for this reason or that reason. I don't know who, if anyone has turned down an invite, but I don't see it out of the realm of possibility that a lot of people would for personal reason as it is done all the time at every level. |
I think its more common in college because of summer school. In high school the demand to go to these tryouts is pretty big, they attract 100 or more people who pay their own way just to try out. |
I do know Brittney Griner turned down invites while she was in high school, and I would assume she is not the only player who has done so.
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awhom111
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awhom111
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awhom111
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ClayK
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| Posted: 05/22/15 9:36 am ::: |
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| So I have to ask: Which high school? And which player?
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awhom111
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 05/23/15 12:34 am ::: |
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Taylor Mikesell hits 71 threes in five minutes. How many did she miss? Only the obsessed know.
<iframe width="854" height="510" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/T_bKY5aRdGI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> |
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FollowtheCardinalRule
Joined: 12 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 05/23/15 8:42 pm ::: |
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| I'm not obsessed enough to watch someone miss twenty shots in five minutes, I swear, said nobody ever.
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awhom111
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GlennMacGrady
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| Posted: 05/24/15 1:11 am ::: |
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Taylor "78%" Mikesell, a Cardinal obsession, has made the top 70.
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icey23
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 05/24/15 2:09 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
| dtrain34 wrote: |
Not a bad analysis of McPhee, but my main point is -- at least in the pre-2012 era when I was hyper sensitive to all this stuff -- if you were the pick to click at age 14, you stayed in the USA Basketball pipeline.
It was almost like a pro franchise that likes to stick with familiar faces, rather than trade a questionable veteran for fresh blood. No need to have tryouts because the sultans of C Springs already KNEW who the real players were.
Washington is an interesting state to look at for this as it has been shown to statistically have more women on D1 rosters than participation in high school basketball would predict. Yet the only McDonald's All-America participants from WA have both been 6'3" or taller.
No shooters, drivers, defenders need apply cause USAB has people already assigned to do those sorts of things from the U12 3x3 team on up (yeah, I'm being a little sarcastic there). |
Interesting ... I wonder how many girls go to the open tryouts? I heard there's like 160 coming this year.
I'm trying to think of other Washington girls I've seen there. |
Do the girls have to pay they way to this? Maybe some family's couldn't afford to go
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ClayK
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| Posted: 05/24/15 3:22 pm ::: |
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| The non-invitees pay their way, so it definitely favors the richer families and the ones who live closer to Colorado Springs.
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awhom111
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dtrain34
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| Posted: 05/24/15 10:25 pm ::: |
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Do the girls have to pay they way to this? Maybe some family's couldn't afford to go.
They do but just to clarify, my original irateness was with the selections for the INVITED players, who do get their way paid. These were weighted away from entire regions of the country prior to the pay-to-tryout options, maybe still are I haven't looked.
The non-invitees pay their way, so it definitely favors the richer families and the ones who live closer to Colorado Springs.
Girls basketball is another one of those things in America that is increasingly lacking a middle class. The top players are often either from the inner city or the wealthier suburbs.
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awhom111
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awhom111
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dtrain34
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| Posted: 05/25/15 12:47 pm ::: |
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| As all following this thread must imagine, I am bursting with pride to see a kid from "north-of-orange-county-but-south-of-British Columbia," the girl from Stockton, on the squad!
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Durantula
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| Posted: 05/25/15 1:25 pm ::: |
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A little interesting that of ESPN's top 15 players in the 2017 class, only one is on the U16 USA team, and its a player at the lower end of the top 15, #14 Alexis Morris. Now some of these players maybe weren't invited to try out, or some turned down an invitation but this does look rare. No top 10 recruit is on the U16 team and the 2nd, 3rd, and 5th ranked players got cut.
A girl who scored 3 ppg for Mater Dei in California made the team, the younger sister of USC's Jordan Adams.
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ClayK
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| Posted: 05/25/15 2:03 pm ::: |
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Aquira DaCosta from Stockton and St. Mary's, makes the team -- remember the name.
As for NorCal, it's been a good run lately: Sabina Ionescu, Gabby Green, Mariya Moore, Mikayla Cowling ...
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dtrain34
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| Posted: 05/25/15 6:03 pm ::: |
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| Durantula wrote: |
A little interesting that of ESPN's top 15 players in the 2017 class, only one is on the U16 USA team, and its a player at the lower end of the top 15, #14 Alexis Morris. Now some of these players maybe weren't invited to try out, or some turned down an invitation but this does look rare. No top 10 recruit is on the U16 team and the 2nd, 3rd, and 5th ranked players got cut.
A girl who scored 3 ppg for Mater Dei in California made the team, the younger sister of USC's Jordan Adams. |
ESPN's rankings aren't worthless but can clearly be flawed and incomplete. There are just too many kids playing to get it right consistently and there are some insiders who can get players ranked who have no business being there. I recall one who rose pretty high up in the rankings via connections who is now basically a solid player at an NAIA II school.
Certainly not shocked Jordan's sister made it onto the USA team without stats, either. I'm sure there are folks posting to this board who will respond with awed comments about Mater Dei's incredible program, that anyone who makes their varsity is bound for All America status, etc., that they teach kids to play the right way with valuable life lessons and so forth.
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uconnfan1
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 05/25/15 8:08 pm ::: Re: U16s |
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Following the announcement of the U16 Team a flurry of tweets started concerning the unfairness of the selection process. Kanny Kallina and others are saying NIKE and College Coaches have too much influence on who the invitees are and ultimately make the team.
It would be interesting to know how USA Basketball selected the list of 35 Invitees. Where did they get their information from that determined these 35 players were some of the best in the country. I'm sure some coaches were asked, but did they get most of their information from the NIKE Girls WBB Power Brokers.
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dtrain34
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| Posted: 05/25/15 10:59 pm ::: |
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What I wouldn't get IF and IF is an important word, the Barons of Beaverton have say on who gets picked WHY they would back the "usual suspects" instead of the best the country can field.
I understand the whole "plays for an adidas school or club" thing but we're talking 16 year olds with ample time to become Swooshers by the time they (if) do make the pros. It seems like the USA fielding the best team would benefit everyone.
Again I don't know if Nike influenced it at all, just that I don't know why they would if it meant fielding a weaker team.
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Nixtreefan
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| Posted: 05/26/15 12:43 pm ::: |
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LMAO like ALL early rankings, they are EARLY! Does any more need to be said.
I mean c'mon.
As for all the whiners, I would love for them to have to field at team and then try and get their bunch of egos to play with each other. Barring the fact that most of the kids on the club circuit and in HS etc don't even know the game. If they have been with a run and gun club or HS that has played with NO structure and only zone for example, they can stand out as much as they want but when push comes to shove they don't know squat about the real game of basketball.
There will be kids that will fall to the way side just as they have in the past. There will be kids put in the 11/12th position that they know will be happy sitting the bench but good teammates. There will be a very tall project included. Lots of scenarios.
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ClayK
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| Posted: 05/26/15 1:14 pm ::: |
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As is always the case, there is no perfect system ...
USA Basketball used to just invite 35 or so girls, who were chosen by a committee of college coaches, who USA Basketball assumed would have the broadest and deepest knowledge of the talent -- an assumption I find it hard to dispute.
But then they decided to open it up for players to just try out, and often a couple of players who weren't invited make the team.
It's a zoo, no question, but there's no apparent advantage for the invitees once the tryouts begin, except that they are pretty much guaranteed to survive the first couple cuts. After that, though, from what I've seen, it's who plays well and fits the needs of the team.
At one level, Kallina and others are right: It's far from a perfect process. On another level, what else could they do?
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