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| Who wins in 2016?? |
| UCONN |
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53% |
[ 22 ] |
| Notre Dame |
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19% |
[ 8 ] |
| other |
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26% |
[ 11 ] |
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| Total Votes : 41 |
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
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 Posted: 04/09/15 12:49 pm ::: |
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It's amusing. I read the same thing every year. Indeed Charlie Cr�me writes the same thing every year as he drops ND to 5th, or 10th or 8th in his preseason rankings.
Notre Dame will fall back. They can't replace Peters, Novosel and Mallory. No Final Four for them next season.
Notre Dame will fall back. They can't possibly replace Skylar Diggins. No Final Four for them next season.
Notre Dame will fall back. They're too young and lose three starters. They can't possibly replace Achonwa, McBride and Braker. No Final Four for them next season.
Notre Dame will fall back. They can't replace Jewell Loyd. No Final Four for them next season.
Meanwhile, as the Final Four string continues. . . .
And I predict once again, for the third straight year, Cr�me will have Tenn at 3 (if not 2), once again saying
2013-14 - "The Final Four drought has a solid chance at ending."
2014-15 - "Tennessee should be in position to end a Final Four drought that has stretched to six years"
2015-16 - ???
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 7365
Location: Underground
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| Posted: 04/09/15 6:01 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| root_thing wrote: |
| snlMINAJ wrote: |
| ITS NATALIE BUTLER AND IM ALMOST CERTAIN SHE WONT BE AN END OF BENCHER. ID EXPECT HER TO GET MORE PT THAN STOKES DID THIS YEAR, UNFORTUNATELY. |
Don't you know? The high school leagues are better than the Big East. High school players are a sure thing, but someone who was fifth in the nation in rebounding and holds the Big East single season rebounding record is likely to be a bench-warmer. |
Natalie. Thanks for the correction. Amanda Butler coaches the Gators and probably has no eligibility left.
So you guys think Vicky McIntyre would have gotten a lot of minutes on UConn's team this season? |
So, you think Dolson should have been a bench-warmer? How about KML? Or do you view them as fast and athletic?
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
Posts: 11050
Location: Lost in D.C.
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| Posted: 04/09/15 7:36 pm ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
Saniya Chong and Courtney Ekmark, who do not have Auriemma's confidence, should seriously consider transferring to another mid-major conference, where each could be high scoring starters and potential All-Conference type players.
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Saniya Chong has a strange high school bio. She was National Player of the Year for Parade Magazine and the High School Coaches Association. She was Gatorade New York State player of the year. But she was only nominated to be one of the 24 McDonalds All-Americans (and the list of nominees is massive - appears to be around 200). And for some reason, ESPN HoopGurls had her rated as a #75 recruit. That's a huge gap between two orgs rating her #1 and another #75. |
She's a complete mystery to me. She seems to have completely disappeared at UConn, and she was highly touted by a lot of people.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8225
Location: Heisenberg
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| Posted: 04/10/15 1:07 am ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| root_thing wrote: |
| snlMINAJ wrote: |
| ITS NATALIE BUTLER AND IM ALMOST CERTAIN SHE WONT BE AN END OF BENCHER. ID EXPECT HER TO GET MORE PT THAN STOKES DID THIS YEAR, UNFORTUNATELY. |
Don't you know? The high school leagues are better than the Big East. High school players are a sure thing, but someone who was fifth in the nation in rebounding and holds the Big East single season rebounding record is likely to be a bench-warmer. |
Natalie. Thanks for the correction. Amanda Butler coaches the Gators and probably has no eligibility left.
So you guys think Vicky McIntyre would have gotten a lot of minutes on UConn's team this season? |
So, you think Dolson should have been a bench-warmer? How about KML? Or do you view them as fast and athletic? |
I'm not talking about fast and athletic or Dolson or KML.
My question about Vicky McIntyre relates directly to your apparent claim that 6-5 Butler is unlikely to be a bench warmer because she was fifth in the nation in rebounding in 2014 and holds the Big East single season record for rebounding.
I believe the 6-7 McIntyre has much stronger statistical accomplishments in 2015 than Butler did in 2014. McIntyre scored 15.4 ppg. She led the nation in rebounds (15.8), blocks (5.7) and triple-doubles (2), while finishing second in double-doubles (27). Her 536 rebounds ranks second most ever in a single-season in NCAA history behind Courtney Paris' 539 during the 2005-06 season and set ORU and Summit League single-season records.
Do you think McIntyre would have gotten a lot of minutes on UConn's team this season? As many minutes as any of UConn's high school AA's? |
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
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| Posted: 04/10/15 9:03 am ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| root_thing wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| root_thing wrote: |
| snlMINAJ wrote: |
| ITS NATALIE BUTLER AND IM ALMOST CERTAIN SHE WONT BE AN END OF BENCHER. ID EXPECT HER TO GET MORE PT THAN STOKES DID THIS YEAR, UNFORTUNATELY. |
Don't you know? The high school leagues are better than the Big East. High school players are a sure thing, but someone who was fifth in the nation in rebounding and holds the Big East single season rebounding record is likely to be a bench-warmer. |
Natalie. Thanks for the correction. Amanda Butler coaches the Gators and probably has no eligibility left.
So you guys think Vicky McIntyre would have gotten a lot of minutes on UConn's team this season? |
So, you think Dolson should have been a bench-warmer? How about KML? Or do you view them as fast and athletic? |
I'm not talking about fast and athletic or Dolson or KML.
My question about Vicky McIntyre relates directly to your apparent claim that 6-5 Butler is unlikely to be a bench warmer because she was fifth in the nation in rebounding in 2014 and holds the Big East single season record for rebounding.
I believe the 6-7 McIntyre has much stronger statistical accomplishments in 2015 than Butler did in 2014. McIntyre scored 15.4 ppg. She led the nation in rebounds (15. , blocks (5.7) and triple-doubles (2), while finishing second in double-doubles (27). Her 536 rebounds ranks second most ever in a single-season in NCAA history behind Courtney Paris' 539 during the 2005-06 season and set ORU and Summit League single-season records.
Do you think McIntyre would have gotten a lot of minutes on UConn's team this season? As many minutes as any of UConn's high school AA's? |
I don't see the similarity. Butler put up those numbers as an 18 year old freshman in the Big East. McIntyre, on the other hand, had a well established track record as a 4 pt 4 rb player at two different schools in two different conferences before putting up big numbers against much weaker competition as a 23 year old 5th year senior in the Summit League. If it was actually apples to apples and McIntyre didn't have the 4/4 years and had simply put up 15.8/15.4/5.7 numbers as a freshman at Oklahoma St where she started and then transferred the next year to UConn, I would have answered yes, with that one year record, and after spending a redshirt year training and working out with the UConn team, I would expect her to play significant minutes for UConn. But in the real world I don't think the comparison you present is really very relevant to assessing Butler's prospects.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 04/10/15 9:47 am ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
Saniya Chong and Courtney Ekmark, who do not have Auriemma's confidence, should seriously consider transferring to another mid-major conference, where each could be high scoring starters and potential All-Conference type players.
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Saniya Chong has a strange high school bio. She was National Player of the Year for Parade Magazine and the High School Coaches Association. She was Gatorade New York State player of the year. But she was only nominated to be one of the 24 McDonalds All-Americans (and the list of nominees is massive - appears to be around 200). And for some reason, ESPN HoopGurls had her rated as a #75 recruit. That's a huge gap between two orgs rating her #1 and another #75. |
Parade used to take its teams seriously and spend some money on them. Now it's just some random person making up a list ... and since New York is still the media center of the U.S., a New York player with gaudy stats is going to get an edge.
Chong at 75 was about right, I thought. When Ossining came to the Nike TOC, she was one of the better players, but not one of the elite. She's good, for sure, but No. 1 was a joke (like USA Today having Salesian of California No. 1 at the start of this season).
As for the McDonald's team, anyone can nominate anyone. You can nominate your niece if you want -- or maybe her coach does, but it's far from a selective process.
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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| Posted: 04/10/15 10:08 am ::: |
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| Can someone describe the way Chong sometimes goes into that lean of hers when dribbling? It's very unusual. You know what I'm talking about? GMAC, you must be familiar w/ it. What is the deal w/ it iyo?
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 04/10/15 12:18 pm ::: |
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| cthskzfn wrote: |
| Can someone describe the way Chong sometimes goes into that lean of hers when dribbling? It's very unusual. You know what I'm talking about? GMAC, you must be familiar w/ it. What is the deal w/ it iyo? |
I can't tell what you mean from your description, though I'm sure I'd recognize the trait if pointed out to me.
Chong is the biggest subjective disappointment to me of any high school player I've ever followed with fan interest -- meaning, I became a big fan of hers when she was in high school. She was so dominant and exciting. Her team was good. They went to the NYS championship game, and did so again the year after she graduated.
While Chong was in high school, I tried to honestly compare her skills to other NY area guards I had seen in high school. I was especially and constantly pressed to compare her to Bria Hartley, and was convinced by my eyes and statistics that she was a better passer and three-point shooter in high school than Hartley, but not as good a defender. (I still think that.) But she simply hasn't shown the offensive confidence and aggression she did in high school, which Hartley showed right out of the UConn gate.
As a high school senior, I thought UConn was a reasonable choice for Chong because, at the time, Moriah Jefferson was quite unimpressive to me as a freshman. And, of course, no one had any idea that Kia Nurse would be recruited or how good she would turn out. I no longer think UConn is a good fit for Chong -- not if she wants playing time and the rewards of personal playing achievements. I now think Chong is mentally psyched out by her UConn experience.
As to Butler, I of course have no idea how good she will be at UConn. I really do hope she does well. However, several probative facts suggest she will be low bench. She wasn't a high school AA. (Vicky McIntyre was: WBCA.) She wasn't ranked in the HoopGurlz top 100, or by anyone else except Blue Star, who ranked her 140 in 2013. She never was offered a spot (or even tryout, as far as I know) on a USAB team. She wasn't recruited (that I've heard of) by any top 25 ranked schools. And Geno Auriemma seemed not even to have heard of her when she first came on the transfer block from Georgetown. He had to ask Doug Bruno about her.
I have a difficult time believing that all those top college coaches, all those ranking services, and all those USAB selection committees were wrong about Butler's skill set and college potential. Therefore, I think it is improbable that she would somehow vault over eight or nine other scholarship players on the UConn team, all of whom were high school AA's, Naismith winners (two), top 10 ranked by HS scouting services, and/or players on one or more USAB or other national teams.
Great rebounding for one year at Georgetown in a diluted Big East Conference does not outweigh all those factors, in my opinion.
I will be happy to revise my opinion when I actually see Butler play on UConn in some competitive minutes.
Meanwhile, for those who carp about a very preliminary opinion that Butler will be near the end of UConn's scholarship bench, please voice your preliminary opinion as to what other UConn player(s) will be sitting in that spot instead -- and back that up that opinion with some statistics or other objective data. Benches and depth charts are zero sum games. |
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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| Posted: 04/10/15 1:22 pm ::: |
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I'm unable to describe it well.
I'm almost afraid to ask- do you have any UConn games saved from this season?
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 04/10/15 4:29 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
I'm not talking about fast and athletic or Dolson or KML.
My question about Vicky McIntyre relates directly to your apparent claim that 6-5 Butler is unlikely to be a bench warmer because she was fifth in the nation in rebounding in 2014 and holds the Big East single season record for rebounding.
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I brought up Dolson and KML because of this quote from you:
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| Amanda Butler is a complete unknown and unknowable until she actually plays in games but, from some video evidence, she's slow afoot and not nearly the athlete that Stokes is, and hence is a likely candidate to be an end-of-bencher. |
Your rationale for Butler being an end-of-bench player is her lack of speed and athleticism. I'm merely pointing out that we've seen recent examples of UConn starters who also lack speed and athleticism -- namely Dolson and KML. Dolson got in much better shape by her junior year. Based on some quotes from the UConn trainer, Butler is one of the hardest workers he has ever had. So, we've seen her achieve a lot while in lesser shape, and now we'll see what she can do when in much better condition.
As far as McIntyre goes, I agree with ArtBest's anaylsis. It's not a good comparison, and you would have to make all kinds of assumptions about changes in circumstances to make it work. Suffice it to say that UConn rarely accepts transfers, and schools don't usually give out an extra year of scholarship money to a redshirt player unless they really like them.
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
As to Butler, I of course have no idea how good she will be at UConn. I really do hope she does well. However, several probative facts suggest she will be low bench. She wasn't a high school AA. (Vicky McIntyre was: WBCA.) She wasn't ranked in the HoopGurlz top 100, or by anyone else except Blue Star, who ranked her 140 in 2013. She never was offered a spot (or even tryout, as far as I know) on a USAB team. She wasn't recruited (that I've heard of) by any top 25 ranked schools. And Geno Auriemma seemed not even to have heard of her when she first came on the transfer block from Georgetown. He had to ask Doug Bruno about her.
I have a difficult time believing that all those top college coaches, all those ranking services, and all those USAB selection committees were wrong about Butler's skill set and college potential. Therefore, I think it is improbable that she would somehow vault over eight or nine other scholarship players on the UConn team, all of whom were high school AA's, Naismith winners (two), top 10 ranked by HS scouting services, and/or players on one or more USAB or other national teams. |
I know nothing about Butler's background. I don't know if she started playing basketball late or had a sudden growth spurt or a light bulb went off and she finally saw a future in basketball. I do know that Dearica Hamby was a softball player and didn't play basketball seriously until she was a junior in high school. She barely squeaked into the HoopGurlz 100 with something like a tie for 97th. Meanwhile, Mercedes Russell was last year's #1 recruit, and she didn't exactly set the world on fire. The amateur basketball establishment isn't flawless. They also can't judge anyone they don't see. Some kids just don't know that they should attend this prep school or join that AAU team.
I don't pretend to know what Butler will be. She may very well end up as a bench-warmer. What annoyed me was your easy dismissal of a player who had already put up a great college season in a decent league. From your past posts, it seems that you cover the high school scene in some way, and all these talent evaluators that you put your faith in are people you know. That's fine. But I also believe you should show some respect to a young lady who made her own way into major college basketball. Just because a player doesn't go through the mainstream process doesn't mean she can't be good. You were talking about Butler as if we could all assume that she is insignificant.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 04/10/15 8:39 pm ::: |
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I saw Butler play quite a few times for Georgetown. I think she will play a lot for UConn. But that's just my opinion. I liked her as a player for Georgetown. I thought she was someone who could really lead somewhere in the BE if they added a couple of players, but then she left.
She played for Lake Braddock - not exactly a local powerhouse. She also played for the Fairfax Stars AAU team, and was on the U16 Girls Nike Elite Premier Showcase team. She averaged a triple-double with 26.2 points, 17.8 rebounds and 10 blocks her senior year in HS. She was a Washington Post All Met and was also named Northern Region player of the year.
So maybe she didn't have the fancy HS bio of some UConn recruits, but then again, most of them didn't accomplish as freshmen what she did, and let's face it, even the current BE is a big step up from the AAC.
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TheLoneGranger
Joined: 03 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 04/11/15 12:03 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| linkster wrote: |
UConn loses their best scorer and best defender while Notre dame loses no one. That's 8 years of experience. They have 4 nice players coming in but freshmen usually need a year brfore being a factor in the NCAA's.
Next year will be ND's best shot at a title since Diggins left. |
Butler is not a freshman. She'll be a college junior next year. |
with three years eligiblity
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