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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 04/09/15 12:03 pm ::: |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67050 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 04/09/15 12:06 pm ::: |
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summertime blues wrote: |
Rent-a-player has been a fact of life in MBB forever |
It's not really renting when you don't pay them anything. It's more like indentured servitude until the NBA says they can come play for money.
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9711
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Posted: 04/09/15 12:07 pm ::: |
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Ex-Ref wrote: |
Wonder if Natalie Achonwa's situation had anything to do with it? |
You are referring to being injured as a senior?
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7860 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004 Posts: 11050 Location: Lost in D.C.
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Posted: 04/09/15 12:18 pm ::: |
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I'd rather they all stayed - men and women - for four years, but that's purely about my pleasure as a fan. I can't find it in myself to criticize someone for a decision like this about her own life, particularly when the money is finally good enough for it to make sense to have a career as a professional basketball player whether or not you have a degree.
I hope that Notre Dame fans will continue to embrace her (or, at least, understand that she doesn't owe them another year). She did a lot for the school in her time there.
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bballjunkie
Joined: 12 Aug 2014 Posts: 785
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Posted: 04/09/15 12:25 pm ::: |
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Best of luck Jewell. Make the most of your window of opportunity, it's yours no one else's.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 04/09/15 12:25 pm ::: |
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summertime blues wrote: |
The NFL, NBA and WNBA need to do what MLB has done for many years, support their own damn minor league system. And I know you are arguing the other way just because. |
How did you put that? You say it's perfectly ok for me to say "in my opinion, that is a stupid comment," right?
If you'd actually ever paid any attention to what I have consistently said it's that amateurism in college sports should be maintained, and that any athlete who wants to and is good enough to get paid to play should be free to do so at any time. But that's right, my comments are just to argue the other way from you. Thanks for the really really good laugh.
The only problem here is that the WNBA has the worst, most restrictive, most anti-competitive, most protectionist policy of any sports league. No other league - not even the NFL - requires you to normally wait until your college class graduates. But that's what the WNBA players association's CBA does. After all, can't have a bunch of crappy veterans losing their jobs to better rookies.
It's Jewell's choice and her choice alone. She doesn't owe you an explanation, and she sure as hell doesn't owe you another year of free entertainment. The only tiny group of people with any standing at all to object to this are her 12 returning teammates. Everyone else should just butt out.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7860 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 04/09/15 12:39 pm ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
summertime blues wrote: |
The NFL, NBA and WNBA need to do what MLB has done for many years, support their own damn minor league system. And I know you are arguing the other way just because. |
How did you put that? You say it's perfectly ok for me to say "in my opinion, that is a stupid comment," right?
If you'd actually ever paid any attention to what I have consistently said it's that amateurism in college sports should be maintained, and that any athlete who wants to and is good enough to get paid to play should be free to do so at any time. But that's right, my comments are just to argue the other way from you. Thanks for the really really good laugh.
The only problem here is that the WNBA has the worst, most restrictive, most anti-competitive, most protectionist policy of any sports league. No other league - not even the NFL - requires you to normally wait until your college class graduates. But that's what the WNBA players association's CBA does. After all, can't have a bunch of crappy veterans losing their jobs to better rookies.
It's Jewell's choice and her choice alone. She doesn't owe you an explanation, and she sure as hell doesn't owe you another year of free entertainment. The only tiny group of people with any standing at all to object to this are her 12 returning teammates. Everyone else should just butt out. |
I never said Jewell didn't have a right to her own decision. However, I reserve my right to say that in my opinion it is not a particularly smart one. I even have the right to say that I think it is a stupid decision that she *may* come to regret. Of course, she may not. It's her life. I would not make that decision, and I would not encourage my own child to make the same one. In saying that, I am not objecting to her decision, I am merely stating an opinion about it, an opinion I have every right to state. And regardless of what you may think, it has nothing to do with my "entertainment", as you so *politely* state it. I enjoy watching Notre Dame, but I am not a particular Notre Dame fan. So please take your Domer defensiveness and just back off.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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ball4life
Joined: 26 Jun 2012 Posts: 199
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Posted: 04/09/15 12:41 pm ::: |
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She probably asked Kobe for his opinion on the matter.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011 Posts: 2819 Location: Indiana
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Posted: 04/09/15 1:08 pm ::: |
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Ex-Ref wrote: |
It seems like she's throwing away what could be a great legacy at ND for some quick money.
She would go down as one of the most beloved and honored athletes at ND. They'd put her number in the rafters and she'd have a place in the record books (and hearts of ND fans) for a long time.
Now, not so much. |
Quick money? I would swear there was a phrase that said something about striking when the iron was hot. She loves basketball and is now in a position to turn that love/passion into money and a career. Isn't that what any parent wishes for their child? In many cases the degree is what leads to that but in her case, it isn't necessary. How on earth can we fault someone for chasing their dreams??
On another note, how many times do you hear about a senior getting injured and it affecting their future? It happens quite a bit in all sports.
What is her family situation? Maybe mom and dad could use a little help...maybe something else is going in her life...none of us know and therefore to rip her for leaving seems to be very inappropriate to me.
Lastly, she can always go back and get her degree. It's not like she is forfeiting that and can never get it back.
Anyway, good for her. She chased her dream and is about to realize it. Congrats Jewell Loyd!
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Posts: 16377 Location: Chicago
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Posted: 04/09/15 1:20 pm ::: |
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I am not sure I buy this idea that she needs to get her degree later. In another thread, Richyy compared her to Deanna Nolan, which I think is a pretty good comparison. So let's assume she has a career like Deanna Nolan. Then lets assume she is able to take slightly more advantage of endorsement money for a variety of reasons (its 15 years later, she's more traditionally attractive in the eyes of advertisers, she has a relationship with Diggins, whatever). That's enough money to never have to work again. It isn't enough to be rich forever, but she would be set up just fine with no college degree.
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 12851 Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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Posted: 04/09/15 1:54 pm ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
summertime blues wrote: |
The NFL, NBA and WNBA need to do what MLB has done for many years, support their own damn minor league system. And I know you are arguing the other way just because. |
How did you put that? You say it's perfectly ok for me to say "in my opinion, that is a stupid comment," right?
If you'd actually ever paid any attention to what I have consistently said it's that amateurism in college sports should be maintained, and that any athlete who wants to and is good enough to get paid to play should be free to do so at any time. But that's right, my comments are just to argue the other way from you. Thanks for the really really good laugh.
The only problem here is that the WNBA has the worst, most restrictive, most anti-competitive, most protectionist policy of any sports league. No other league - not even the NFL - requires you to normally wait until your college class graduates. But that's what the WNBA players association's CBA does. After all, can't have a bunch of crappy veterans losing their jobs to better rookies.
It's Jewell's choice and her choice alone. She doesn't owe you an explanation, and she sure as hell doesn't owe you another year of free entertainment. The only tiny group of people with any standing at all to object to this are her 12 returning teammates. Everyone else should just butt out. |
Her former teammates spend more time w/ her than anyone and are like family. They should be happy for her in every possible way. I doubt they'd be so petty and selfish as to "object" to her decision to move on w/ her life.
_________________ Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 04/09/15 2:15 pm ::: |
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cthskzfn wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
summertime blues wrote: |
The NFL, NBA and WNBA need to do what MLB has done for many years, support their own damn minor league system. And I know you are arguing the other way just because. |
How did you put that? You say it's perfectly ok for me to say "in my opinion, that is a stupid comment," right?
If you'd actually ever paid any attention to what I have consistently said it's that amateurism in college sports should be maintained, and that any athlete who wants to and is good enough to get paid to play should be free to do so at any time. But that's right, my comments are just to argue the other way from you. Thanks for the really really good laugh.
The only problem here is that the WNBA has the worst, most restrictive, most anti-competitive, most protectionist policy of any sports league. No other league - not even the NFL - requires you to normally wait until your college class graduates. But that's what the WNBA players association's CBA does. After all, can't have a bunch of crappy veterans losing their jobs to better rookies.
It's Jewell's choice and her choice alone. She doesn't owe you an explanation, and she sure as hell doesn't owe you another year of free entertainment. The only tiny group of people with any standing at all to object to this are her 12 returning teammates. Everyone else should just butt out. |
Her former teammates spend more time w/ her than anyone and are like family. They should be happy for her in every possible way. I doubt they'd be so petty and selfish as to "object" to her decision to move on w/ her life. |
I never said they would object. I said they were the only ones with any standing to object. My guess is they will be fully supportive.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 04/09/15 2:23 pm ::: |
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PUmatty wrote: |
I am not sure I buy this idea that she needs to get her degree later. In another thread, Richyy compared her to Deanna Nolan, which I think is a pretty good comparison. So let's assume she has a career like Deanna Nolan. Then lets assume she is able to take slightly more advantage of endorsement money for a variety of reasons (its 15 years later, she's more traditionally attractive in the eyes of advertisers, she has a relationship with Diggins, whatever). That's enough money to never have to work again. It isn't enough to be rich forever, but she would be set up just fine with no college degree. |
There is a value in education for education's sake.
Troy Murphy made $70 Million from his NBA salary, not counting endorsements. He didn't need to finish his degree, but that's what he's doing. Adrian Dantley was NBA Rookie of the Year. He was set for life. He didn't need to finish his degree, but he did.
I don't think the decision to finish school later is correctly assessed as a matter of "necessity".
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 12851 Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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Posted: 04/09/15 2:34 pm ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
cthskzfn wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
summertime blues wrote: |
The NFL, NBA and WNBA need to do what MLB has done for many years, support their own damn minor league system. And I know you are arguing the other way just because. |
How did you put that? You say it's perfectly ok for me to say "in my opinion, that is a stupid comment," right?
If you'd actually ever paid any attention to what I have consistently said it's that amateurism in college sports should be maintained, and that any athlete who wants to and is good enough to get paid to play should be free to do so at any time. But that's right, my comments are just to argue the other way from you. Thanks for the really really good laugh.
The only problem here is that the WNBA has the worst, most restrictive, most anti-competitive, most protectionist policy of any sports league. No other league - not even the NFL - requires you to normally wait until your college class graduates. But that's what the WNBA players association's CBA does. After all, can't have a bunch of crappy veterans losing their jobs to better rookies.
It's Jewell's choice and her choice alone. She doesn't owe you an explanation, and she sure as hell doesn't owe you another year of free entertainment. The only tiny group of people with any standing at all to object to this are her 12 returning teammates. Everyone else should just butt out. |
Her former teammates spend more time w/ her than anyone and are like family. They should be happy for her in every possible way. I doubt they'd be so petty and selfish as to "object" to her decision to move on w/ her life. |
I never said they would object. I said they were the only ones with any standing to object. My guess is they will be fully supportive. |
I never said you did.
I disagree they have any objection to stand on.
_________________ Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004 Posts: 11050 Location: Lost in D.C.
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Posted: 04/09/15 3:39 pm ::: |
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PUmatty wrote: |
I am not sure I buy this idea that she needs to get her degree later. In another thread, Richyy compared her to Deanna Nolan, which I think is a pretty good comparison. So let's assume she has a career like Deanna Nolan. Then lets assume she is able to take slightly more advantage of endorsement money for a variety of reasons (its 15 years later, she's more traditionally attractive in the eyes of advertisers, she has a relationship with Diggins, whatever). That's enough money to never have to work again. It isn't enough to be rich forever, but she would be set up just fine with no college degree. |
Truth be told, there are a lot of jobs for former star college athletes that don't require a college degree. The most obvious job that (usually) does is college coaching. I remember that Sue Wicks had to go back and get her last few credits before she could join the Rutgers staff.
Edited to add:
Seeing the comments above about getting the degree because you want to get it, I totally agree - and that's a valid reason to get one, too. Heck, Shaquille O'Neal, for whom there really couldn't be any benefit other than the psychic kind, got his degree, then got an M.B.A. online (okay, that might actually have more than psychic benefit) and eventually an Ed. D. (And Prince is reported to be working on finishing hers at Rutgers now that she's been traded to New York).
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 14120
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Posted: 04/09/15 3:55 pm ::: |
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beknighted wrote: |
PUmatty wrote: |
I am not sure I buy this idea that she needs to get her degree later. In another thread, Richyy compared her to Deanna Nolan, which I think is a pretty good comparison. So let's assume she has a career like Deanna Nolan. Then lets assume she is able to take slightly more advantage of endorsement money for a variety of reasons (its 15 years later, she's more traditionally attractive in the eyes of advertisers, she has a relationship with Diggins, whatever). That's enough money to never have to work again. It isn't enough to be rich forever, but she would be set up just fine with no college degree. |
Truth be told, there are a lot of jobs for former star college athletes that don't require a college degree. The most obvious job that (usually) does is college coaching. I remember that Sue Wicks had to go back and get her last few credits before she could join the Rutgers staff. |
To me the most obvious job would be broadcasting.
I don't recall any former players becoming college coaches without a degree. If I recall didn't Prairie View A&M make Cynthia Cooper finish her degree before naming her head coach.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7860 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 04/09/15 3:58 pm ::: |
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IIRC, Shaq went back and finished his, although Lord knows HE didn't need to, "because he had promised his momma he would." Also I think he had, somewhere along the line, made a promise to himself.
At Tennessee, it came to be a tradition....every player that played 4 years for Pat graduated. Most who didn't play the full 4 also graduated, including the JUCO transfers Bobbitt and Auguste, and an awful lot of them graduated in 3 years. I remember more than one year when she had multiple grad students on the team. It is traditional for the girls to sign their names on a column in the practice facility when they graduate, and that column is quite a wonder to behold. The tradition of graduating continues under Holly Warlick. Pictures are taken every year of that year's grads from the team signing their names to the column. Izzy, Cierra, and Ariel will sign this year.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004 Posts: 11050 Location: Lost in D.C.
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Posted: 04/09/15 3:59 pm ::: |
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GEF34 wrote: |
beknighted wrote: |
PUmatty wrote: |
I am not sure I buy this idea that she needs to get her degree later. In another thread, Richyy compared her to Deanna Nolan, which I think is a pretty good comparison. So let's assume she has a career like Deanna Nolan. Then lets assume she is able to take slightly more advantage of endorsement money for a variety of reasons (its 15 years later, she's more traditionally attractive in the eyes of advertisers, she has a relationship with Diggins, whatever). That's enough money to never have to work again. It isn't enough to be rich forever, but she would be set up just fine with no college degree. |
Truth be told, there are a lot of jobs for former star college athletes that don't require a college degree. The most obvious job that (usually) does is college coaching. I remember that Sue Wicks had to go back and get her last few credits before she could join the Rutgers staff. |
To me the most obvious job would be broadcasting.
I don't recall any former players becoming college coaches without a degree. If I recall didn't Prairie View A&M make Cynthia Cooper finish her degree before naming her head coach. |
We agree - What I was *trying* to say (not very clearly) was that the most obvious job that requires a degree is coaching.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 14120
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Posted: 04/09/15 4:02 pm ::: |
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summertime blues wrote: |
IIRC, Shaq went back and finished his, although Lord knows HE didn't need to, "because he had promised his momma he would." Also I think he had, somewhere along the line, made a promise to himself.
At Tennessee, it came to be a tradition....every player that played 4 years for Pat graduated. Most who didn't play the full 4 also graduated, including the JUCO transfers Bobbitt and Auguste, and an awful lot of them graduated in 3 years. I remember more than one year when she had multiple grad students on the team. It is traditional for the girls to sign their names on a column in the practice facility when they graduate, and that column is quite a wonder to behold. The tradition of graduating continues under Holly Warlick. Pictures are taken every year of that year's grads from the team signing their names to the column. Izzy, Cierra, and Ariel will sign this year. |
Slightly related, didn't Tamika Catchings leave Tennessee with a Bachelor's and Master's in 4 years?
Edited: I just looked at her WNBA bio, it seems she was finished with her Bachelor's degree in 3 1/2 years, started her Master's program that last semester as she finished out her eligibility and she finished her Master's while she was playing in the WNBA.
And I've always been impressed by Nicky Anosike, she graduated with 3 Bachelor's degrees in 4 years.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 14120
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Posted: 04/09/15 4:08 pm ::: |
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beknighted wrote: |
GEF34 wrote: |
beknighted wrote: |
PUmatty wrote: |
I am not sure I buy this idea that she needs to get her degree later. In another thread, Richyy compared her to Deanna Nolan, which I think is a pretty good comparison. So let's assume she has a career like Deanna Nolan. Then lets assume she is able to take slightly more advantage of endorsement money for a variety of reasons (its 15 years later, she's more traditionally attractive in the eyes of advertisers, she has a relationship with Diggins, whatever). That's enough money to never have to work again. It isn't enough to be rich forever, but she would be set up just fine with no college degree. |
Truth be told, there are a lot of jobs for former star college athletes that don't require a college degree. The most obvious job that (usually) does is college coaching. I remember that Sue Wicks had to go back and get her last few credits before she could join the Rutgers staff. |
To me the most obvious job would be broadcasting.
I don't recall any former players becoming college coaches without a degree. If I recall didn't Prairie View A&M make Cynthia Cooper finish her degree before naming her head coach. |
We agree - What I was *trying* to say (not very clearly) was that the most obvious job that requires a degree is coaching. |
Gotcha, I see what you were trying to say now.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7860 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 04/09/15 4:12 pm ::: |
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GEF34 wrote: |
summertime blues wrote: |
IIRC, Shaq went back and finished his, although Lord knows HE didn't need to, "because he had promised his momma he would." Also I think he had, somewhere along the line, made a promise to himself.
At Tennessee, it came to be a tradition....every player that played 4 years for Pat graduated. Most who didn't play the full 4 also graduated, including the JUCO transfers Bobbitt and Auguste, and an awful lot of them graduated in 3 years. I remember more than one year when she had multiple grad students on the team. It is traditional for the girls to sign their names on a column in the practice facility when they graduate, and that column is quite a wonder to behold. The tradition of graduating continues under Holly Warlick. Pictures are taken every year of that year's grads from the team signing their names to the column. Izzy, Cierra, and Ariel will sign this year. |
Slightly related, didn't Tamika Catchings leave Tennessee with a Bachelor's and Master's in 4 years?
And I've always been impressed by Nicky Anosike, she graduated with 3 Bachelor's degrees in 4 years. |
Catchings did. I was thinking Nicky got a Master's too, but I could be wrong there.
Catchings and Semeka Randall both graduated in 3 years. Kristen "Ace" Clement, who had come in the same freshman class with them, was a little miffed when she found out that they were on track to do that. "Why didn't you tell me that was the plan?" she fussed. "I could have done it with you!" She piled it on over the summer and graduated the next semester.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 14120
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Posted: 04/09/15 4:17 pm ::: |
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summertime blues wrote: |
GEF34 wrote: |
summertime blues wrote: |
IIRC, Shaq went back and finished his, although Lord knows HE didn't need to, "because he had promised his momma he would." Also I think he had, somewhere along the line, made a promise to himself.
At Tennessee, it came to be a tradition....every player that played 4 years for Pat graduated. Most who didn't play the full 4 also graduated, including the JUCO transfers Bobbitt and Auguste, and an awful lot of them graduated in 3 years. I remember more than one year when she had multiple grad students on the team. It is traditional for the girls to sign their names on a column in the practice facility when they graduate, and that column is quite a wonder to behold. The tradition of graduating continues under Holly Warlick. Pictures are taken every year of that year's grads from the team signing their names to the column. Izzy, Cierra, and Ariel will sign this year. |
Slightly related, didn't Tamika Catchings leave Tennessee with a Bachelor's and Master's in 4 years?
And I've always been impressed by Nicky Anosike, she graduated with 3 Bachelor's degrees in 4 years. |
Catchings did. I was thinking Nicky got a Master's too, but I could be wrong there.
Catchings and Semeka Randall both graduated in 3 years. Kristen "Ace" Clement, who had come in the same freshman class with them, was a little miffed when she found out that they were on track to do that. "Why didn't you tell me that was the plan?" she fussed. "I could have done it with you!" She piled it on over the summer and graduated the next semester. |
When I read your post about Nicky getting a Master's I wouldn't be surprised if my face looked like this
Nicky is a very remarkable woman, I wouldn't be surprised if she got a Master's in that time as well, or even if she has one now that she got after her time at Tennessee.
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pwhite66
Joined: 01 Dec 2010 Posts: 249
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Posted: 04/09/15 4:33 pm ::: |
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When Marianne Stanley left Old Dominion in 1987, 28-year-old Nancy Lieberman expressed interest in the position. But since she didn't have her degree, ODU wouldn't even consider her.
Old Dominion wound up "settling" for Wendy Larry.
Lieberman, who is perhaps the Godmother of women's hoops stars leaving college early to turn pro, exited ODU nine hours short (according to her) of getting her degree in 1980 to play for pay. She finally got the degree in 2000.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9711
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