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BallState1984
Joined: 27 Aug 2006
Posts: 1892
Location: Halfway between Muncie and West Lafayette
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 Posted: 03/27/15 11:25 am ::: |
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| Not wanting to pay for abortion means one hates gays is a stretch, isn't it?
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Terminally afffected with Our Girl Syndrome and proud of it!
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
Posts: 11050
Location: Lost in D.C.
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| Posted: 03/27/15 11:26 am ::: |
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| BallState1984 wrote: |
The reason I had misgivings about this law is apparently alreadu coming to pass. Some stoners are trying to use the law to create a "church".
You just knew some asshole was going to take advantage and create unintended consequences. |
More to the point, when the legislators try to enact a law that will allow people to discriminate on the basis of religious beliefs, they can't pick out the religious beliefs they like and don't like without violating the Constitution. And when they try to cloak an anti-gay law in neutral language, they're going to have trouble limiting the impact of the law to gays.
And, for the record, I don't think the stoners are the problem here.
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
Posts: 11050
Location: Lost in D.C.
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| Posted: 03/27/15 11:30 am ::: |
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| BallState1984 wrote: |
| Not wanting to pay for abortion means one hates gays is a stretch, isn't it? |
That's not what Courtside is saying. Hobby Lobby appears to have created a very broad rule (I say "appears" because it may be that the Court will pull back or will later decide it didn't mean what it said) that applies far beyond the context of that specific decision. Abortion was the context of Hobby Lobby (well, actually, not abortion, but the factually incorrect belief that certain forms of birth control cause extremely early term abortions), but the underlying argument would apply to all manner of government regulations.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66903
Location: Where the action is
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| Posted: 03/27/15 11:38 am ::: |
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| BallState1984 wrote: |
The reason I had misgivings about this law is apparently alreadu coming to pass. Some stoners are trying to use the law to create a "church".
You just knew some asshole was going to take advantage and create unintended consequences. |
That's what happens when you pass vague and unnecessary laws. Republicans used to campaign against that sort of thing.
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dfineguy
Joined: 05 Oct 2008
Posts: 201
Location: Bay Area Califonia
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| Posted: 03/27/15 12:06 pm ::: |
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| How about "Until this law is rescinded, no university or college based in the state of Indiana may hold or compete for an NCAA championship." C'mon Indiana, put your money where your mouth (or law) is!
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8942
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| Posted: 03/27/15 12:21 pm ::: |
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| dfineguy wrote: |
| How about "Until this law is rescinded, no university or college based in the state of Indiana may hold or compete for an NCAA championship." C'mon Indiana, put your money where your mouth (or law) is! |
The NCAA would have to move their headquarters out of the state before that could happen.
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kool-aide
Joined: 09 Jun 2009
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meyers77
Joined: 02 Mar 2015
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| Posted: 03/27/15 3:58 pm ::: |
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| dfineguy wrote: |
| How about "Until this law is rescinded, no university or college based in the state of Indiana may hold or compete for an NCAA championship." C'mon Indiana, put your money where your mouth (or law) is! |
This could cause quite a problem since quite a few other states have similar Religious Freedom Restoration laws.
Alabama, Connecticut (uh-oh), Florida (hope you guys aren't gonna watch the women's tourney this year), Idaho, Illinois, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, S. Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia.
Gonna limit a lot of teams and locations. Maybe Duke's got a shot now?
Come on people don't be so easily manipulated.
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FollowtheCardinalRule
Joined: 12 Oct 2011
Posts: 5153
Location: Denver
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| Posted: 03/27/15 4:28 pm ::: |
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| meyers77 wrote: |
| dfineguy wrote: |
| How about "Until this law is rescinded, no university or college based in the state of Indiana may hold or compete for an NCAA championship." C'mon Indiana, put your money where your mouth (or law) is! |
This could cause quite a problem since quite a few other states have similar Religious Freedom Restoration laws.
Alabama, Connecticut (uh-oh), Florida (hope you guys aren't gonna watch the women's tourney this year), Idaho, Illinois, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, S. Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia.
Gonna limit a lot of teams and locations. Maybe Duke's got a shot now?
Come on people don't be so easily manipulated. |
More like Stanford would win every single tournament ever.
Let's see, Stanford doesn't ever get stopped by UConn, the year we lost to Texas A&M and Tennessee would be a new title for the Card.
2005: Michigan State
2006: Maryland
2007: Rutgers
2008: Stanford
2009: Stanford
2010: Stanford
2011: Stanford
2012: Stanford
2013: California
2014: Stanford vs. Maryland National Title Game
Can we do this retroactively please?
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scullyfu
Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 8859
Location: Niagara Falls
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| Posted: 03/27/15 10:05 pm ::: |
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| meyers77 wrote: |
| dfineguy wrote: |
| How about "Until this law is rescinded, no university or college based in the state of Indiana may hold or compete for an NCAA championship." C'mon Indiana, put your money where your mouth (or law) is! |
This could cause quite a problem since quite a few other states have similar Religious Freedom Restoration laws.
Alabama, Connecticut (uh-oh), Florida (hope you guys aren't gonna watch the women's tourney this year), Idaho, Illinois, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, S. Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia.
Gonna limit a lot of teams and locations. Maybe Duke's got a shot now?
Come on people don't be so easily manipulated. |
the key word is 'similar', not 'same'. go back up the thread and read the differences: the other states are based on involvement of a government entity, indiana's does not.
don't be fooled, this is nothing but another opportunity to paint religious people as being victims. its BS, pure and simple.
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scullyfu
Joined: 01 Jan 2006
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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larmarch5
Joined: 31 Jul 2014
Posts: 424
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| Posted: 03/28/15 11:05 am ::: Re: NCAA upset with law that allows denial of service to gay |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
I caught part of a news report that indicated several national organizations are threatening to pull out of commitments to hold big conventions in Indianapolis. I don't know enough about this law to make any sort of comment on it. Seems as though it is raising some concerns. |
I guess it all comes down to the contracts. And maybe some customers have put down deposits to guarantee the reservations. I wonder if, in the future, customers will add a clause to exempt them from future contracts if a state, county or locality passes a discriminatory law after a contract is signed.
But what kind of people think they are going to get into heaven by refusing service to a customer? Nucking Futs.
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larmarch5
Joined: 31 Jul 2014
Posts: 424
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| Posted: 03/28/15 11:15 am ::: |
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| BallState1984 wrote: |
The reason I had misgivings about this law is apparently alreadu coming to pass. Some stoners are trying to use the law to create a "church".
You just knew some asshole was going to take advantage and create unintended consequences. |
These "churches" sprang up during the Vietnam war as tax protesters and used many tactics to resist supporting what they considered to be an immoral war. One that got investigated down in Texas was The Church of Jesus Christ Lord God Almighty", which for those of you NOT from the south, is what our parents said when they hit their thumbs with a hammer and the kids were listening.
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Youth Coach
Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 4760
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| Posted: 03/28/15 2:51 pm ::: |
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| I'd love to see the shitstorm the religious people would start if a gay business owner refused to serve them on account that they were religious. |
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8942
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| Posted: 03/28/15 6:42 pm ::: |
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Let Pence and his fools have their law.
Put LARGE signs on the door or in the window of each and every business.
Pretty, bright, colorful, welcoming ones of the businesses that will serve everyone and black ones for those business that wish to discriminate. Then let's see how long before there are no more black signs.
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
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| Posted: 03/31/15 8:46 pm ::: |
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| Evidently Arkansas thinks it's a great idea and is passing its own copy of Indiana's law specifically without any of the clarifications Indiana is working on adding.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7828
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 03/31/15 8:51 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Evidently Arkansas thinks it's a great idea and is passing its own copy of Indiana's law specifically without any of the clarifications Indiana is working on adding. |
Too dumb to see the backlash, I guess.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
Posts: 11050
Location: Lost in D.C.
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| Posted: 03/31/15 10:46 pm ::: |
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The MAC has announced that it will not hold championships or meetings in Indiana while the law is in effect.
No MAC
Also, the National Forensics Association, which runs the college national public speaking competition (with hundreds of participants) has announced that it is reopening the bidding for its 2016 competition, which was scheduled to be at Ball State, because of the law. This is a big deal personally for me, as I was involved in that competition for many years, as a competitor, a coach and a judge.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
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Location: Lost in D.C.
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| Posted: 04/02/15 1:06 pm ::: |
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I'm going to wait to see if this actually gets a majority in the legislature.
One interesting question is what the Democrats will do. They ought to vote for it, but it may be that they'll make the Republicans come up with a majority for it on their own to drive home the political point.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 04/02/15 1:33 pm ::: |
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| beknighted wrote: |
I'm going to wait to see if this actually gets a majority in the legislature.
One interesting question is what the Democrats will do. They ought to vote for it, but it may be that they'll make the Republicans come up with a majority for it on their own to drive home the political point. |
They said it will be passed and signed today. We'll see, but it was negotiated among the Gov and GOP leaders in both houses and business leaders so I assume it's a done deal. NCAA, IU, Lily, and others have already come out congratulating them. They obviously know it's done or they wouldn't have risked embarassing themselves.
BTW, the Dem former Indy mayor came out in support. The Dems would squander their high road if they don't support this but the GOP probably doesn't need their support to pass it.
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
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Location: Lost in D.C.
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| Posted: 04/02/15 2:34 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| beknighted wrote: |
I'm going to wait to see if this actually gets a majority in the legislature.
One interesting question is what the Democrats will do. They ought to vote for it, but it may be that they'll make the Republicans come up with a majority for it on their own to drive home the political point. |
They said it will be passed and signed today. We'll see, but it was negotiated among the Gov and GOP leaders in both houses and business leaders so I assume it's a done deal. NCAA, IU, Lily, and others have already come out congratulating them. They obviously know it's done or they wouldn't have risked embarassing themselves.
BTW, the Dem former Indy mayor came out in support. The Dems would squander their high road if they don't support this but the GOP probably doesn't need their support to pass it. |
In Congress, a deal negotiated by GOP leaders might not get enough GOP votes to pass these days, so I'll retain some skepticism about whether they'll all support it (or even enough will support it to get through without Democratic votes). I noticed from the news reports that the Dems were not included in the negotiations and that they have said they're considering whether this language is good enough.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 04/02/15 4:08 pm ::: |
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| beknighted wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| beknighted wrote: |
I'm going to wait to see if this actually gets a majority in the legislature.
One interesting question is what the Democrats will do. They ought to vote for it, but it may be that they'll make the Republicans come up with a majority for it on their own to drive home the political point. |
They said it will be passed and signed today. We'll see, but it was negotiated among the Gov and GOP leaders in both houses and business leaders so I assume it's a done deal. NCAA, IU, Lily, and others have already come out congratulating them. They obviously know it's done or they wouldn't have risked embarassing themselves.
BTW, the Dem former Indy mayor came out in support. The Dems would squander their high road if they don't support this but the GOP probably doesn't need their support to pass it. |
In Congress, a deal negotiated by GOP leaders might not get enough GOP votes to pass these days, so I'll retain some skepticism about whether they'll all support it (or even enough will support it to get through without Democratic votes). I noticed from the news reports that the Dems were not included in the negotiations and that they have said they're considering whether this language is good enough. |
That's nice, but that doesn't typically happen in state legislatures, and in fact the "fix" bill has already been passed by both houses and is just awaiting the governor's signature. The House passed the changes with a 66-30 vote, and it passed the Senate 34-16.
http://www.wthr.com/story/28698272/clock-is-ticking-on-rfra-clarification-at-indiana-statehouse
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