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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11150
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Posted: 03/02/15 4:43 pm ::: Wooden Award top 15 |
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Who ya got?
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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sigur3
Joined: 18 Jun 2013 Posts: 6191 Location: Chicago-ish
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Posted: 03/02/15 5:11 pm ::: |
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Fixed; forgot Davis, so replaced Logic with her (really tough cut)
Amanda Zahui B.
Aerial Pow!ers
Tiffany Mitchell
Breanna Stewart
Kaleena Mosqueda-Lewis
Jewell Loyd
Elizabeth Williams
Allisha Gray
Jillian Alleyne
Dearica Hamby
Nina Davis
Betnijah Laney
Kelsey Plum
Brittany Boyd
Reshanda Gray
Last edited by sigur3 on 03/02/15 11:09 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010 Posts: 5377 Location: Chocolate Paradise
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Posted: 03/02/15 10:40 pm ::: |
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sigur3 wrote: |
Amanda Zahui B.
Aerial Pow!ers
Tiffany Mitchell
Breanna Stewart
Kaleena Mosqueda-Lewis
Jewell Loyd
Elizabeth Williams
Allisha Gray
Jillian Alleyne
Dearica Hamby
Samantha Logic
Betnijah Laney
Kelsey Plum
Brittany Boyd
Reshanda Gray |
I like your list with the exception of Reshanda Gray. I would drop her and replace her with Nina Davis.
_________________ You can win, as long as you keep your head to the SKY! Be OPTIMISTIC!
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sigur3
Joined: 18 Jun 2013 Posts: 6191 Location: Chicago-ish
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Posted: 03/02/15 11:06 pm ::: |
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Rock Hard wrote: |
sigur3 wrote: |
Amanda Zahui B.
Aerial Pow!ers
Tiffany Mitchell
Breanna Stewart
Kaleena Mosqueda-Lewis
Jewell Loyd
Elizabeth Williams
Allisha Gray
Jillian Alleyne
Dearica Hamby
Samantha Logic
Betnijah Laney
Kelsey Plum
Brittany Boyd
Reshanda Gray |
I like your list with the exception of Reshanda Gray. I would drop her and replace her with Nina Davis. |
Shit, I knew something didn't look right...
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 14109
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Posted: 03/10/15 5:28 pm ::: |
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Here is the list of the 15 players named finalist for the John R. Wooden Award. Voting goes from March 16 - March 24.
Jillian Alleyne, Oregon
Brittany Boyd, California
Nina Davis, Baylor
Reshanda Gray, California
Moriah Jefferson, Connecticut
Samantha Logic, Iowa
Jewell Loyd, Notre Dame
Kelsey Mitchell, Ohio State
Tiffany Mitchell, South Carolina
Kaleena Mosqueda-Lewis, Connecticut
Kelsey Plum, Washington
Breanna Stewart, Connecticut
Elizabeth Williams, Duke
A'ja Wilson, South Carolina
Amanda Zahui B., Minnesota
http://www.woodenaward.com/womensballot
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Oldfandepot2
Joined: 05 Jul 2013 Posts: 996 Location: Northeast
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Posted: 03/10/15 5:56 pm ::: |
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A'ja Wilson. A'ja Wilson!! Are you freak'n kidding me. I take Aleighsa Welch from that team before her.
_________________ Cave Canem!
We must listen to each other no matter how much it hurts. Bishop Desmond Tutu.
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user1688
Joined: 03 Jul 2013 Posts: 15
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Posted: 03/10/15 8:40 pm ::: |
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Oldfandepot2 wrote: |
A'ja Wilson. A'ja Wilson!! Are you freak'n kidding me. I take Aleighsa Welch from that team before her. |
Agree, Aleighsa Welch should be ahead of her.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32335
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Posted: 03/10/15 9:27 pm ::: |
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user1688 wrote: |
Oldfandepot2 wrote: |
A'ja Wilson. A'ja Wilson!! Are you freak'n kidding me. I take Aleighsa Welch from that team before her. |
Agree, Aleighsa Welch should be ahead of her. |
and quite a few others too. But we gotta beach about something so if it wasn't her...
_________________ For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12537 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Ladyvol777
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 248
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Posted: 03/10/15 9:33 pm ::: |
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Can't believe Tennessee Isabelle Harrison did't make the list.
Last edited by Ladyvol777 on 03/10/15 9:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7845 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 03/10/15 9:34 pm ::: |
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I guess blowing out your knee before the end of the season disqualifies you from all further consideration
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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NickDMB
Joined: 04 Mar 2015 Posts: 66
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Posted: 03/11/15 11:45 pm ::: |
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Duplicate
Last edited by NickDMB on 03/11/15 11:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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NickDMB
Joined: 04 Mar 2015 Posts: 66
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Posted: 03/11/15 11:46 pm ::: |
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WNBA 09 wrote: |
I still dont understand Moriah Being On This List.... |
Really? It's hard for me to imagine why she wouldn't.
She is surrounded by a lot of talent (every starter on her team is likely to end the season with double digit scoring and with 100+ assists on the year) so she's obviously not as large a part of the offense as she would be otherwise. I don't know that it's fair to judge her for not getting as many assists as Brittany Boyd or as many points as Kelsey Plum. But she is dramatically more efficient than any other guard on the list.
There are seven guards on the list, Jefferson, Logic, the Mitchells, Boyd, Plum, and Loyd.
Jefferson is 5th in points per 40 at 17.4 (behind Mitchell, Mitchell, Plum, and Loyd), 3rd in assists per 40 at 7 (behind Logic and Boyd), and 1st in steals per 40 at 3.85. Those aren't exactly the numbers of someone who doesn't belong in the group, and we haven't gotten to efficiency stats yet.
Jefferson is 1st in shooting percentage (and, at 58% is 8 points higher than the next best on the list), 1st in 3PT percentage (50% on 88 attempts, 7 points higher than the next best), and 1st in A/TO (3.05, about 50% better than the next best).
Jefferson is also one of the best defenders at her position in the country. There's not a lot in a box score to back that up, but she's far and away the go-to perimeter defender for her team which is first in the nation in points allowed and field goal percentage defense.
So, what exactly is the argument for keeping her off?
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 14109
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Posted: 03/12/15 12:17 am ::: |
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Ladyvol777 wrote: |
Can't believe Tennessee Isabelle Harrison did't make the list. |
summertime blues wrote: |
I guess blowing out your knee before the end of the season disqualifies you from all further consideration |
At the time the list was released she played in about 65% of Tennessee's games, I don't if there is a written rule, but I would assume it's an unwritten rule that she missed too many games. If she got injured a week or a week and a few days later, it probably wouldn't have been that big of an issue and she would have been included.
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Fighting Artichoke
Joined: 12 Dec 2012 Posts: 4040
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Posted: 03/12/15 6:49 am ::: |
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NickDMB wrote: |
WNBA 09 wrote: |
I still dont understand Moriah Being On This List.... |
Really? It's hard for me to imagine why she wouldn't.
She is surrounded by a lot of talent (every starter on her team is likely to end the season with double digit scoring and with 100+ assists on the year) so she's obviously not as large a part of the offense as she would be otherwise. I don't know that it's fair to judge her for not getting as many assists as Brittany Boyd or as many points as Kelsey Plum. But she is dramatically more efficient than any other guard on the list.
There are seven guards on the list, Jefferson, Logic, the Mitchells, Boyd, Plum, and Loyd.
Jefferson is 5th in points per 40 at 17.4 (behind Mitchell, Mitchell, Plum, and Loyd), 3rd in assists per 40 at 7 (behind Logic and Boyd), and 1st in steals per 40 at 3.85. Those aren't exactly the numbers of someone who doesn't belong in the group, and we haven't gotten to efficiency stats yet.
Jefferson is 1st in shooting percentage (and, at 58% is 8 points higher than the next best on the list), 1st in 3PT percentage (50% on 88 attempts, 7 points higher than the next best), and 1st in A/TO (3.05, about 50% better than the next best).
Jefferson is also one of the best defenders at her position in the country. There's not a lot in a box score to back that up, but she's far and away the go-to perimeter defender for her team which is first in the nation in points allowed and field goal percentage defense.
So, what exactly is the argument for keeping her off? |
Good points, and welcome to the board. I agree that Moriah's stats are very high quality. The only real argument I can see for keeping her off the list is her low scoring numbers (despite her very high shooting percentage), the fact that she amasses her offensive stats while not being the focus of the opposition's defense, and the fact that there may be 2 other players from her own team that are better POY candidates. But do I think that Moriah is one of top 15 players in the country? Quite possibly, as she may be the best PG. I have no problem with her inclusion.
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larmarch5
Joined: 31 Jul 2014 Posts: 424
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Posted: 03/12/15 2:53 pm ::: |
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"There are seven guards on the list, Jefferson, Logic, the Mitchells, Boyd, Plum, and Loyd. "
So, should the NCAA also implement a 3-second defensive rule AND put in the same kind of contact foul rules for inside the paint that the perimeter players enjoy?
I say Give the Bigs a Chance, put more value on good passing, and reward strategy over one on one dribbling and one trick 3 pt wonders.
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NickDMB
Joined: 04 Mar 2015 Posts: 66
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Posted: 03/15/15 3:51 am ::: |
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larmarch5 wrote: |
"There are seven guards on the list, Jefferson, Logic, the Mitchells, Boyd, Plum, and Loyd. "
So, should the NCAA also implement a 3-second defensive rule AND put in the same kind of contact foul rules for inside the paint that the perimeter players enjoy?
I say Give the Bigs a Chance, put more value on good passing, and reward strategy over one on one dribbling and one trick 3 pt wonders. |
I don't have a strong opinion on a defensive three second rule in college, but I don't think that the presence of 7 guards amongst the best 15 players is germane. Pretty much every player to play in the 1 or 2 spot is a guard, along with quite a few 3s, so 47% doesn't sound very far off.
As for whether there should be the same contact rules for players facing away from the basket, obviously not. If you're not allowed to defensively post up (or even touch the offensive player), the game falls apart.
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NickDMB
Joined: 04 Mar 2015 Posts: 66
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Posted: 03/15/15 3:55 am ::: |
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Fighting Artichoke wrote: |
Good points, and welcome to the board. I agree that Moriah's stats are very high quality. The only real argument I can see for keeping her off the list is her low scoring numbers (despite her very high shooting percentage), the fact that she amasses her offensive stats while not being the focus of the opposition's defense, and the fact that there may be 2 other players from her own team that are better POY candidates. But do I think that Moriah is one of top 15 players in the country? Quite possibly, as she may be the best PG. I have no problem with her inclusion. |
Thanks! I think watch lists generally default to (and are seen as) the best X players in the country, so that was the perspective with which I was approaching the question. As for scoring, obviously there's got to be an arbitrary line in the sand somewhere, but I don't think that 17 points per 40 is all that low (again, higher than both Logic and Boyd), especially for players who's primary contributions are not scoring.
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