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Oldfandepot2



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PostPosted: 03/02/15 8:36 pm    ::: Breanna Stewart Reply Reply with quote

Breanna Stewart after relegating her game to a lesser role to the benefit of the overall team concept for most of the season has during the last few games starting with South Carolina asserted herself and said give me the damn ball. In so doing she has once again become that transcendent player, the unstoppable, the most dominant player in WCBB on both ends of the court. She is taking her game to a level that no other player in the WCBB can go. None. NPOY.



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Ladyvol777



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PostPosted: 03/02/15 9:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

She should go prow and quit wasting her time in college.


SpaceJunkie



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PostPosted: 03/02/15 10:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ladyvol777 wrote:
She should go prow and quit wasting her time in college.


I thought she went to UConn to win four National Championships.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 03/02/15 10:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ladyvol777 wrote:
She should go prow and quit wasting her time in college.


Pretty big jump from facing high school teams to facing pros.


Oldfandepot2



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PostPosted: 03/02/15 10:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Ladyvol777 wrote:
She should go prow and quit wasting her time in college.


Pretty big jump from facing high school teams to facing pros.


Now, Art stop disrespecting Notre Dame like that.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 03/02/15 11:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Oldfandepot2 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
Ladyvol777 wrote:
She should go prow and quit wasting her time in college.


Pretty big jump from facing high school teams to facing pros.


Now, Art stop disrespecting Notre Dame like that.


In your words

Oldfandepot2 wrote:
during the last few games starting with South Carolina


So now who has it been since SCar? Let's see, Tulane, Houston, Tulane again, Tulsa, Memphis. That might have something to do with looking "unstoppable" and "transcendant." It must be just like being back in high school and being the tallest, most atletic, most talented player on the floor every night.

Not quite the same as the WNBA.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 03/03/15 12:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Oldfandepot2 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
Ladyvol777 wrote:
She should go prow and quit wasting her time in college.


Pretty big jump from facing high school teams to facing pros.


Now, Art stop disrespecting Notre Dame like that.


In your words

Oldfandepot2 wrote:
during the last few games starting with South Carolina


So now who has it been since SCar? Let's see, Tulane, Houston, Tulane again, Tulsa, Memphis. That might have something to do with looking "unstoppable" and "transcendant." It must be just like being back in high school and being the tallest, most atletic, most talented player on the floor every night.

Not quite the same as the WNBA.


I think this might be a Ploy To Get ESPN talking about Stewart And Not Lloyd As POY. Its over lol Lloyd Has Delivered All Season Not Just "Since S. Carolina" The Bodies Of Work Will Play Out And Jewell Will Win. No Question. NPOY #JB



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Beemer



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PostPosted: 03/03/15 10:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SpaceJunkie wrote:
Ladyvol777 wrote:
She should go prow and quit wasting her time in college.


I thought she went to UConn to win four National Championships.


I believe that is what she said.

And yes she is upping her game at the right time.



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Oldfandepot2



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PostPosted: 03/03/15 10:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Oldfandepot2 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
Ladyvol777 wrote:
She should go prow and quit wasting her time in college.


Pretty big jump from facing high school teams to facing pros.


Now, Art stop disrespecting Notre Dame like that.


In your words

Oldfandepot2 wrote:
during the last few games starting with South Carolina


So now who has it been since SCar? Let's see, Tulane, Houston, Tulane again, Tulsa, Memphis. That might have something to do with looking "unstoppable" and "transcendant." It must be just like being back in high school and being the tallest, most atletic, most talented player on the floor every night.

Not quite the same as the WNBA.


Art, she kicked the crap out that highly touted South Carolina front line and last night from both the inside and the perimeter she toyed with Massey's fifteenth ranked team. Again as I said before she relegated her game to the betterment of team. Now she is back to being that yes transcendent, unstoppable player we saw last year. She is the best player in the game now that Geno has turned her loose again. She might not win the POY but she is. Big Game Breanna.

You have this habit of using as your to defense the what ifs and in the future as a measuring stick and no but no knows for sure what will happen in the future. Look at Skylar in her first year, then her second year in the WNBA. Anyone predict that? Here you are talking about Breanna, a junior playing in the WNBA.

I am talking now and now here in WCBB she is the best player in the game bar none. I will think about the future when it comes. Right now, here in this moment, she is the best player in the college game. She proved that last year and now is playing on that level again this year.

She has always been playing well this season enough to be considered for the POY, now she has gone to another level as I said before, a level no other player in the game has shown they can obtain.


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FollowtheCardinalRule



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PostPosted: 03/03/15 11:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Oldfandepot2 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
Oldfandepot2 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
Ladyvol777 wrote:
She should go prow and quit wasting her time in college.


Pretty big jump from facing high school teams to facing pros.


Now, Art stop disrespecting Notre Dame like that.


In your words

Oldfandepot2 wrote:
during the last few games starting with South Carolina


So now who has it been since SCar? Let's see, Tulane, Houston, Tulane again, Tulsa, Memphis. That might have something to do with looking "unstoppable" and "transcendant." It must be just like being back in high school and being the tallest, most atletic, most talented player on the floor every night.

Not quite the same as the WNBA.


Art, she kicked the crap out that highly touted South Carolina front line and last night from both the inside and the perimeter she toyed with Massey's fifteenth ranked team. Again as I said before she relegated her game to the betterment of team. Now she is back to being that yes transcendent, unstoppable player we saw last year. She is the best player in the game now that Geno has turned her loose again. She might not win the POY but she is. Big Game Breanna.

You have this habit of using as your to defense the what ifs and in the future as a measuring stick and no but no knows for sure what will happen in the future. Look at Skylar in her first year, then her second year in the WNBA. Anyone predict that? Here you are talking about Breanna, a junior playing in the WNBA.

I am talking now and now here in WCBB she is the best player in the game bar none. I will think about the future when it comes. Right now, here in this moment, she is the best player in the college game. She proved that last year and now is playing on that level again this year.

She has always been playing well this season enough to be considered for the POY, now she has gone to another level as I said before, a level no other player in the game has shown they can obtain.


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I still think that Chiney Ogwumike was the best player in the nation last year. Just look at how Stanford has struggled without her. (Except for that one magical night in Maples.)


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 03/03/15 12:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Oldfandepot2 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
Oldfandepot2 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
Ladyvol777 wrote:
She should go prow and quit wasting her time in college.


Pretty big jump from facing high school teams to facing pros.


Now, Art stop disrespecting Notre Dame like that.


In your words

Oldfandepot2 wrote:
during the last few games starting with South Carolina


So now who has it been since SCar? Let's see, Tulane, Houston, Tulane again, Tulsa, Memphis. That might have something to do with looking "unstoppable" and "transcendant." It must be just like being back in high school and being the tallest, most atletic, most talented player on the floor every night.

Not quite the same as the WNBA.


Art, she kicked the crap out that highly touted South Carolina front line and last night from both the inside and the perimeter she toyed with Massey's fifteenth ranked team. Again as I said before she relegated her game to the betterment of team. Now she is back to being that yes transcendent, unstoppable player we saw last year. She is the best player in the game now that Geno has turned her loose again. She might not win the POY but she is. Big Game Breanna.

You have this habit of using as your to defense the what ifs and in the future as a measuring stick and no but no knows for sure what will happen in the future. Look at Skylar in her first year, then her second year in the WNBA. Anyone predict that? Here you are talking about Breanna, a junior playing in the WNBA.

I am talking now and now here in WCBB she is the best player in the game bar none. I will think about the future when it comes. Right now, here in this moment, she is the best player in the college game. She proved that last year and now is playing on that level again this year.

She has always been playing well this season enough to be considered for the POY, now she has gone to another level as I said before, a level no other player in the game has shown they can obtain.


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It's the same nonsense we heard from UConn fans when Loyd won the BE and National FOY. But but but but Stewart has looked really good the last few games. It's the player of the YEAR award, not the "player who has looked good the last two weeks of February against horrific competition" award. Some players have done it all year.

When your girl Lobo picks Loyd, you probably ought to just give it up.


linkster



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PostPosted: 03/03/15 12:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Loyd was on a team with fewer scorers than UConn. She was forced to carry her team's offense. Based on the entire season she deserves the POY. No doubt in my mind.

The downside of that is the question of how much she will have left from this point on. Legs get tired and when that happens outside shooting % goes down.

It showed up in the UConn game when she put up most of her scoring early in the game, going about 6-6 in the first 10 minutes and only made 4 shots the rest of the game. Stewart had a poor scoring game, going 3-12 and doing most of her damage at the ft line and on the boards. If Loyd had scored but 15 the Turner-less Irish would have lost by 30+. Stewart has the advantage of being surrounded by inside and outside scorers. She doesn't need to put up 30 against an elite opponent. I think that's a big reason she performs so well in the NCAA's. She is relatively fresher.

Stewart plays 27 min/gm; Loyd plays 31 min/gm. Loyd has taken 454 shots. Stewart 383. And Loyd needs to elevate a lot more than Stewart. Legs have their limits.

If Loyd had played for UConn she likely would not have had the numbers she has had at Notre Dame and wouldn't be the odds on favorite for POY.

But she'd have at least a couple of rings.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 03/03/15 12:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

"Stewart has the advantage of being surrounded by inside and outside scorers."

. . . in that particular game.

Because her team's 2nd leading scorer, leading rebounder, leading shot blocker, primary post presence, wasn't out of the game with a shoulder injury.

Indeed, I'm not sure what you were trying to say with "If Loyd had scored but 15 the Turner-less Irish would have lost by 30+. " Ok, isn't that the point? They didn't. Because even though the Irish were rendered entirely one-dimensional with the loss of their primary interior offensive weapon, and the entire UConn defense was keyed on trying to stop Loyd, she still scored 31. What was Stewart's excuse?

You might as well have said that if Tuck hadn't taken advantage of being defended by 5'9" and 5'10" guards and scored 25, Notre Dame would have won by 7.


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PostPosted: 03/03/15 4:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:


Stewart plays 27 min/gm; Loyd plays 31 min/gm. Loyd has taken 454 shots. Stewart 383. And Loyd needs to elevate a lot more than Stewart. Legs have their limits.


Linkster, what does this mean?


Oldfandepot2



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PostPosted: 03/03/15 4:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Oldfandepot2 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
Oldfandepot2 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
Ladyvol777 wrote:
She should go prow and quit wasting her time in college.


Pretty big jump from facing high school teams to facing pros.


Now, Art stop disrespecting Notre Dame like that.


In your words

Oldfandepot2 wrote:
during the last few games starting with South Carolina


So now who has it been since SCar? Let's see, Tulane, Houston, Tulane again, Tulsa, Memphis. That might have something to do with looking "unstoppable" and "transcendant." It must be just like being back in high school and being the tallest, most atletic, most talented player on the floor every night.

Not quite the same as the WNBA.


Art, she kicked the crap out that highly touted South Carolina front line and last night from both the inside and the perimeter she toyed with Massey's fifteenth ranked team. Again as I said before she relegated her game to the betterment of team. Now she is back to being that yes transcendent, unstoppable player we saw last year. She is the best player in the game now that Geno has turned her loose again. She might not win the POY but she is. Big Game Breanna.

You have this habit of using as your to defense the what ifs and in the future as a measuring stick and no but no knows for sure what will happen in the future. Look at Skylar in her first year, then her second year in the WNBA. Anyone predict that? Here you are talking about Breanna, a junior playing in the WNBA.

I am talking now and now here in WCBB she is the best player in the game bar none. I will think about the future when it comes. Right now, here in this moment, she is the best player in the college game. She proved that last year and now is playing on that level again this year.

She has always been playing well this season enough to be considered for the POY, now she has gone to another level as I said before, a level no other player in the game has shown they can obtain.


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It's the same nonsense we heard from UConn fans when Loyd won the BE and National FOY. But but but but Stewart has looked really good the last few games. It's the player of the YEAR award, not the "player who has looked good the last two weeks of February against horrific competition" award. Some players have done it all year.

When your girl Lobo picks Loyd, you probably ought to just give it up.


Nonsense Art and you know it. I gave no buts when Loyd was named FOY, just like I give no buts if Turner is named FOY. Right from the start I said that. It was obvious then that Loyd was the better player during the regular season that freshman year.I also Turner was the best freshman I have seen this year. I even said in December if they were to vote for NPOY it would be Loyd. Things have changed since then and Stewart has been making a very strong case for NPOY. Further, even if she doesn't get it. (I have no vote and as far I know neither do you) does not preclude the fact that her skill set in the WCBB is without peer. She was in the running then when I believed Loyd was at the time deserving of the honor and said so. Now the gap has closed and I believe that Stewart has now overtaken Loyd for NPOY.

I even gone so far, much to the chagrin of some of my UCONN brethren as to have railed against Skylar not being selected to the Natiional team and Sue Bird being selected. I felt it was unfair then and I still feel that way. Now with Stewart v Loyd it is not anti ND biased, and just just like I felt Skylar over Bird, I feel now Stewart over Loyd, IMHO.

I supported ND fans and rightfully so when Arike was not put on the Naismith finalist list. Does that sound like a person who takes a stance because they are anti ND. I try to be as objective as possible and in this case I feel I am.

Also Lobo, you and I recently had a discussion about her, didn't we and agreed didn't we that she goes too far to be objective and therefore skews her judgement when the topic is UCONN and said she should take her cue from Kara Lawson about how to discuss their college team without fear of not sounding objective. So much for my girl.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 03/03/15 4:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Oldfandepot2 wrote:
Also Lobo, you and I recently had a discussion about her, didn't we and agreed didn't we that she goes too far to be objective and therefore skews her judgement when the topic is UCONN and said she should take her cue from Kara Lawson about how to discuss their previous team. So much for my girl.


I think you said that about Lobo; I don't think I've ever said that. What I have said is that she's very good as long as she's not covering UConn, and that I don't think they should let her do UConn games. I certainly don't agree she goes the other way. I think she still bows down to her old coach.

As for POY, it's for the full year. You don't make up for three months of lackluster performances in two weeks. Second, I don't even think Stewart's performances recently are any better than Loyd's recent performance such as against Louisville. Third, Loyd has performed at a higher level for the past two months against far more difficult competition. Stewart has played one real game in 2015; it's really easy to look good and pad stats playing SMU and UCF and Houston and Cincy and the like.

I'm sure you genuinely believe that Stewart is much better and much more deserving. And given the "Geno Bonus" in such award voting, it won't surprise me if she wins. But personally, I don't believe she deserves it. And I don't think it's really close.


Oldfandepot2



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PostPosted: 03/03/15 5:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Then we agree to respectfully disagree. OK with that.



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PostPosted: 03/03/15 8:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
linkster wrote:


Stewart plays 27 min/gm; Loyd plays 31 min/gm. Loyd has taken 454 shots. Stewart 383. And Loyd needs to elevate a lot more than Stewart. Legs have their limits.


Linkster, what does this mean?


Players who have to work harder during the season often wear down late in the season. It's not a universal truth but it happens more often than not.

I guess I was reminded of something I heard a long time ago. It was a noted coach,( I can't remember who) doing color in a men's game involving 2 opposing stars, one a 6'3" leaping guard, much like Loyd, who could leap to the rafters and a 6'10" inch star post. The comment was that at the taller player has an edge because at the end of the game the shorter star had tired legs while the 6'10" player was still 6'10". Loyd, along with Turner, has had to carry the scoring load for the Irish all season and for a stretch it was Loyd alone. That wears legs down. Look at what happend last year. Loyd went 27-54 in the S16, E8 and FF semi, then went 4-15 in the FF final.

I've seen it more in the conference tournaments where 3 games are played in 3 days. Invariably, outside shooting deteriorates. Legs get tired. But it applies to the NCAA's as well, especially the second game of each of the last 2 weekends.


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PostPosted: 03/03/15 8:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Oldfandepot2 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
Oldfandepot2 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
Ladyvol777 wrote:
She should go prow and quit wasting her time in college.


Pretty big jump from facing high school teams to facing pros.


Now, Art stop disrespecting Notre Dame like that.


In your words

Oldfandepot2 wrote:
during the last few games starting with South Carolina


So now who has it been since SCar? Let's see, Tulane, Houston, Tulane again, Tulsa, Memphis. That might have something to do with looking "unstoppable" and "transcendant." It must be just like being back in high school and being the tallest, most atletic, most talented player on the floor every night.

Not quite the same as the WNBA.


Art, she kicked the crap out that highly touted South Carolina front line and last night from both the inside and the perimeter she toyed with Massey's fifteenth ranked team. Again as I said before she relegated her game to the betterment of team. Now she is back to being that yes transcendent, unstoppable player we saw last year. She is the best player in the game now that Geno has turned her loose again. She might not win the POY but she is. Big Game Breanna.

You have this habit of using as your to defense the what ifs and in the future as a measuring stick and no but no knows for sure what will happen in the future. Look at Skylar in her first year, then her second year in the WNBA. Anyone predict that? Here you are talking about Breanna, a junior playing in the WNBA.

I am talking now and now here in WCBB she is the best player in the game bar none. I will think about the future when it comes. Right now, here in this moment, she is the best player in the college game. She proved that last year and now is playing on that level again this year.

She has always been playing well this season enough to be considered for the POY, now she has gone to another level as I said before, a level no other player in the game has shown they can obtain.


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It's the same nonsense we heard from UConn fans when Loyd won the BE and National FOY. But but but but Stewart has looked really good the last few games. It's the player of the YEAR award, not the "player who has looked good the last two weeks of February against horrific competition" award. Some players have done it all year.

When your girl Lobo picks Loyd, you probably ought to just give it up.




I see you have Biebel disease. Smile

Maybe SOME UConn fans...



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PostPosted: 03/03/15 8:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
linkster wrote:


Stewart plays 27 min/gm; Loyd plays 31 min/gm. Loyd has taken 454 shots. Stewart 383. And Loyd needs to elevate a lot more than Stewart. Legs have their limits.


Linkster, what does this mean?


Players who have to work harder during the season often wear down late in the season. It's not a universal truth but it happens more often than not.

I guess I was reminded of something I heard a long time ago. It was a noted coach,( I can't remember who) doing color in a men's game involving 2 opposing stars, one a 6'3" leaping guard, much like Loyd, who could leap to the rafters and a 6'10" inch star post. The comment was that at the taller player has an edge because at the end of the game the shorter star had tired legs while the 6'10" player was still 6'10". Loyd, along with Turner, has had to carry the scoring load for the Irish all season and for a stretch it was Loyd alone. That wears legs down. Look at what happend last year. Loyd went 27-54 in the S16, E8 and FF semi, then went 4-15 in the FF final.

I've seen it more in the conference tournaments where 3 games are played in 3 days. Invariably, outside shooting deteriorates. Legs get tired. But it applies to the NCAA's as well, especially the second game of each of the last 2 weekends.



That only makes sense if the 6'3" player is trying to play at a 6'10" level. Meaning trying to jump 7" above their normal vertical. If they are playing at their normal level, they should be at the same level of tired as the 6'10" player.

It doesn't take into account the weight that each player is trying to elevate. 6'3" may try to jump higher, but 6'10" is most likely carrying 30-50# more. It also doesn't take into account how each player practices during the season and what they did in the off season. What kind of workouts they did, how many games they played, weights lifted, etc.

ND monitors the players and how much they run and jump during a game and practice. Jewell should be fine.


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PostPosted: 03/03/15 8:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stewie is an awesome player, no doubt about it. But I think she does have trouble against physicality, which is what happened in the Stanford game...so it depends on a) do the refs allow physicality and b) if she's doubled, can her teammates perform? If a but not b, then UConn is vulnerable. Otherwise they are unstoppable.

That aside, I too think Loyd should be POY. Stewie will go #1 next year, but Loyd has just steadily performed all year while Stewie has just started to go into her unstoppable mode.

That said, it will mean the voters have to go on what actually happened, not on hype. As we have seen in the past, that doesn't always happen.



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linkster



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PostPosted: 03/03/15 8:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
"Stewart has the advantage of being surrounded by inside and outside scorers."

. . . in that particular game.

Because her team's 2nd leading scorer, leading rebounder, leading shot blocker, primary post presence, wasn't out of the game with a shoulder injury.

Indeed, I'm not sure what you were trying to say with "If Loyd had scored but 15 the Turner-less Irish would have lost by 30+. " Ok, isn't that the point? They didn't. Because even though the Irish were rendered entirely one-dimensional with the loss of their primary interior offensive weapon, and the entire UConn defense was keyed on trying to stop Loyd, she still scored 31. What was Stewart's excuse?

You might as well have said that if Tuck hadn't taken advantage of being defended by 5'9" and 5'10" guards and scored 25, Notre Dame would have won by 7.


Quote:
. . . in that particular game.


no, in any game. Notre Dame has no one to match Lewis and Tuck's offense scoring. Both are inside/outside scorers while Turner is strictly inside while Allen is outside. And Jefferson is as good a scorer as Allen. If you disagree OK, I don't want to argue it.

I wasn't trying to play what if. I was trying to point out that if you are going to award a POY stats mean something but if you want to talk about who is the best player stats aren't sufficient. Since this is a POY, Loyd deserves it more.

But ...Yeah, Loyd got 31, but 15 of them were in the first 10 minutes of the game. She had but 16 the rest of the game, took 27 shots to get that 31 and my point was that she tired. Loyd was more indispensable to the Irish in that one game than Stewart was to the Huskies. UConn had more inside/outside offensive options than Notre Dame. Over the course of this season Loyd has scored 25% of the Irish points while Stewart has scored 18% of UConn's. I think that if the 2 players were switched to each other's teams those numbers would likely be reversed.


Jlcarter



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PostPosted: 03/03/15 9:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Art does have a point. Teams in AAC are not exactly top competition.
I want too see how she does in the WNBA against someone like Parker.


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PostPosted: 03/03/15 9:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If ND lost Loyd, how beatable would they have been in their conference? Same with UConn and Stewart?

Without Loyd, ND might have had some serious struggles in their conference. Without Stewart, UConn wouldn't miss a beat in their conference. That makes Loyd my choice as NPOY.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 03/03/15 9:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:


But ...Yeah, Loyd got 31, but 15 of them were in the first 10 minutes of the game. She had but 16 the rest of the game, took 27 shots to get that 31


And the interesting thing is that with her team's entire scoring load on her shoulders, with UConn's defense entirely focused on trying to stop her, Loyd's 10 for 27 shooting percentage was still way better than Stewart's 3-12, despite Stewart being the tallest player in the game.


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