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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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 Posted: 01/20/15 5:28 pm ::: Is every team "overrated"? |
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Sometimes it seems to me that on WCBB boards (and not just this one) every time a ranked team loses a game it is accused of being "overrated"? Even undefeated teams are accused of being overrated because they've allegedly "played no one."
Is anyone any good?
More specifically, name a team that is CORRECTLY RATED right now. (Be careful, if the team you name loses, they'll become overrated . . . and you'll be rated as an overrater.)
Even more specifically, name a team that's been correctly rated all season. |
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insidewinder
Joined: 19 Feb 2006
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| Posted: 01/20/15 5:34 pm ::: Re: Is every team "overrated"? |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
Sometimes it seems to me that on WCBB boards (and not just this one) every time a ranked team loses a game it is accused of being "overrated"? Even undefeated teams are accused of being overrated because they've allegedly "played no one."
Is anyone any good?
More specifically, name a team that is CORRECTLY RATED right now. (Be careful, if the team you name loses, they'll become overrated . . . and you'll be rated as an overrater.)
Even more specifically, name a team that's been correctly rated all season. |
They all suck. All the teams were better last year and will be better next year.
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Durantula
Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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| Posted: 01/20/15 5:48 pm ::: |
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I don't think so, there just aren't that many great teams. For instance everytime UConn beats down some team their fans they that team isn't good, or when TN and ND play I see comments saying how both teams aren't that great, etc. Ok great, well then WHO is better? That's the thing, your rank is going to go up if you win and teams ahead of you lose. People act like if you lose a game or don't blow every team out like UConn you aren't deserving of a top 5/10/25 ranking.
I just wish these people who say Tenn isn't good, ND isn't great and whatever gave us their rankings. They don't offer up a ranking but everyone is overrated, its stupid.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 01/20/15 5:50 pm ::: |
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| Charleston Southern is not overrated
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 01/20/15 6:18 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| Charleston Southern is not overrated |
Neither is UCSB.
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YourCrimsonNightmare
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
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| Posted: 01/20/15 6:41 pm ::: |
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Oklahoma is definitely underrated, although they are on the cusp of a top-25 ranking. They are 6-0 in Big 12 play with every win by more than 10 points. In those six wins they've beaten three top 25 teams, and half the wins were on the road.
I've watched them several times during the current 7-game winning streak, and they have been beyond impressive.
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 01/20/15 7:01 pm ::: |
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I think part of the answer is that every team has a range of performance. Some team's range is wider than others. The reason UConn has had so many undefeated seasons IMO is partly due to them playing in a very narrow range at the top of their capability. Other teams are capable of playing at that level, and do so, but also play several games nearer to the low end of their capabilities. They may not lose but they look like crap. A team like Tennessee is capable of playing at a very high level as was shown at N Dame, bur who also plays a lot worse, as was the case in their previous 2 games at Auburn and Arkansas.
And, on occasion, a team can play well above their normal range of performance. If a weak team does so on a day when their elite opponent plays at the low end of their range we have an upset. This is much more apparent in the men's game where the level of performance between No 1 and No. 50 is probably equal to the Woman's 1 and 15. On their best day, a No. 50 wbb team is still getting beat by the No. 1 or 2 at their worst.
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YourCrimsonNightmare
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
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| Posted: 01/20/15 7:09 pm ::: |
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| linkster wrote: |
I think part of the answer is that every team has a range of performance. Some team's range is wider than others. The reason UConn has had so many undefeated seasons IMO is partly due to them playing in a very narrow range at the top of their capability. Other teams are capable of playing at that level, and do so, but also play several games nearer to the low end of their capabilities. They may not lose but they look like crap. A team like Tennessee is capable of playing at a very high level as was shown at N Dame, bur who also plays a lot worse, as was the case in their previous 2 games at Auburn and Arkansas.
And, on occasion, a team can play well above their normal range of performance. If a weak team does so on a day when their elite opponent plays at the low end of their range we have an upset. This is much more apparent in the men's game where the level of performance between No 1 and No. 50 is probably equal to the Woman's 1 and 15. On their best day, a No. 50 wbb team is still getting beat by the No. 1 or 2 at their worst. |
So what you're saying, you haven't seen the Sooners play in the last month.
OK.
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YourCrimsonNightmare
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
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| Posted: 01/20/15 7:09 pm ::: |
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| deleted
Last edited by YourCrimsonNightmare on 01/20/15 10:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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YourCrimsonNightmare
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
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| Posted: 01/20/15 7:10 pm ::: |
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| linkster wrote: |
I think part of the answer is that every team has a range of performance. Some team's range is wider than others. The reason UConn has had so many undefeated seasons IMO is partly due to them playing in a very narrow range at the top of their capability. Other teams are capable of playing at that level, and do so, but also play several games nearer to the low end of their capabilities. They may not lose but they look like crap. A team like Tennessee is capable of playing at a very high level as was shown at N Dame, bur who also plays a lot worse, as was the case in their previous 2 games at Auburn and Arkansas.
And, on occasion, a team can play well above their normal range of performance. If a weak team does so on a day when their elite opponent plays at the low end of their range we have an upset. This is much more apparent in the men's game where the level of performance between No 1 and No. 50 is probably equal to the Woman's 1 and 15. On their best day, a No. 50 wbb team is still getting beat by the No. 1 or 2 at their worst. |
So what you're saying, you haven't seen the Sooners play in the last month.
OK.
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 01/20/15 8:59 pm ::: |
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| YourCrimsonNightmare wrote: |
| linkster wrote: |
I think part of the answer is that every team has a range of performance. Some team's range is wider than others. The reason UConn has had so many undefeated seasons IMO is partly due to them playing in a very narrow range at the top of their capability. Other teams are capable of playing at that level, and do so, but also play several games nearer to the low end of their capabilities. They may not lose but they look like crap. A team like Tennessee is capable of playing at a very high level as was shown at N Dame, bur who also plays a lot worse, as was the case in their previous 2 games at Auburn and Arkansas.
And, on occasion, a team can play well above their normal range of performance. If a weak team does so on a day when their elite opponent plays at the low end of their range we have an upset. This is much more apparent in the men's game where the level of performance between No 1 and No. 50 is probably equal to the Woman's 1 and 15. On their best day, a No. 50 wbb team is still getting beat by the No. 1 or 2 at their worst. |
So what you're saying, you haven't seen the Sooners play in the last month.
OK. |
Actually I watched a good part of their game with Okl St. I'm not sure whether they played well or whether Okl St played bad. State has some big strong players but they can't pass and can't shoot more than 6 feet from the hoop. Or maybe they just had a bad game. Okl looked good against them.
Edit: I guess you were referring to Okl Vs Texas. I'm not sure where Texas was ranked but it wasn't 1 or 2 and they were missing their star freshman. Right now Wbb State ranks Texas at 23 and Okl at 40. massey has them at 14 & 27. Wbb State uses a modified RPI system while Massey is a performance-based rating. I find them much more credible than the polls.
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 01/20/15 9:32 pm ::: |
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| YourCrimsonNightmare wrote: |
Oklahoma is definitely underrated, although they are on the cusp of a top-25 ranking. They are 6-0 in Big 12 play with every win by more than 10 points. In those six wins they've beaten three top 25 teams, and half the wins were on the road.
I've watched them several times during the current 7-game winning streak, and they have been beyond impressive. |
YCN resumes his Sooner boasting!
Define "beyond impressive".
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 01/20/15 9:36 pm ::: Re: Is every team "overrated"? |
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| insidewinder wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
Sometimes it seems to me that on WCBB boards (and not just this one) every time a ranked team loses a game it is accused of being "overrated"? Even undefeated teams are accused of being overrated because they've allegedly "played no one."
Is anyone any good?
More specifically, name a team that is CORRECTLY RATED right now. (Be careful, if the team you name loses, they'll become overrated . . . and you'll be rated as an overrater.)
Even more specifically, name a team that's been correctly rated all season. |
They all suck. All the teams were better last year and will be better next year. |
This is relatively accurate, imo.
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YourCrimsonNightmare
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
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| Posted: 01/20/15 10:06 pm ::: |
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| cthskzfn wrote: |
| YourCrimsonNightmare wrote: |
Oklahoma is definitely underrated, although they are on the cusp of a top-25 ranking. They are 6-0 in Big 12 play with every win by more than 10 points. In those six wins they've beaten three top 25 teams, and half the wins were on the road.
I've watched them several times during the current 7-game winning streak, and they have been beyond impressive. |
YCN resumes his Sooner boasting!
Define "beyond impressive". |
I get it. You think that I'm a huckster. FU. My team is as worthy of being in the dance as all your candidate teams.
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YourCrimsonNightmare
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
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| Posted: 01/20/15 10:10 pm ::: |
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| YourCrimsonNightmare wrote: |
Oklahoma is definitely underrated, although they are on the cusp of a top-25 ranking. They are 6-0 in Big 12 play with every win by more than 10 points. In those six wins they've beaten three top 25 teams, and half the wins were on the road.
I've watched them several times during the current 7-game winning streak, and they have been beyond impressive. |
YCN resumes his Sooner boasting!
Define "beyond impressive".
Beyond impressive? How about you watch OU play before you pull that BS on anyone. This team is for real, you aren't.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 01/20/15 10:58 pm ::: |
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As an OklaHomer myself, I'd concur that OK is *currently* playing well. But: They can be streaky. For example, I don't believe they should have lost to Arkansas, or UALR. But they did. Then they beat TX, and OK State.
Neither set of outcomes surprises me, because with Coale's past couple of teams, consistency has not been a forte. Right now, they're on a roll, and frankly YCN, you know as well as I do--that can end with the next game in The Big 12.
Regarding the Original Post:
Who's "correctly" rated? Assuming you're equating Ratings with Rankings: Lots of 'em, imo: SC, UConn, ND, TN. I still see Baylor and Louisville as more accurately in the #10-15 range, i.e., they've ascended by attrition.
The other part of this idea is expecting that *things* remain static, and obviously, we all know that is NOT the case. See: TX/Enampkali, J. Lloyd has a bug when playing Miami....this is why the season is more than 7 games long. Who can perform consistently over the long haul?
In cases like Stanford and Oklahoma State, their early rankings may have reflected pollster's remembrances of last year more than the reality of THIS year, and the unfolding season rectifies this disparity. But that's nothing new, either.
Finally, I'd probably agree that this season's Usual Heavy Hitters may just NOT be up to their usual highest of standards--they're definitely Good, but not Amazing. That's quite okay: it justifiably gives hope to the others to get their Cinderella wardrobes in order.
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cthskzfn
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FollowtheCardinalRule
Joined: 12 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 01/21/15 10:34 am ::: |
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Kenyon is right where i expected after the loss of Maureen Hirt.
Princeton is vastly underrated.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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| Posted: 01/21/15 11:18 am ::: |
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| FollowtheCardinalRule wrote: |
| Princeton is vastly underrated. |
I'm not sure I agree with this. They are currently ranked #19/#21 in the polls, which would mean they are about the 20th best team in the nation. I know they have beaten Pitt and Michigan but that's pretty much it. Vastly would indicate you would think they should be substantially higher and I don't know how to justify that given who they have played thus far.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 01/21/15 11:27 am ::: |
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| FollowtheCardinalRule wrote: |
Princeton is vastly underrated. |
Look, I think it's great that Princeton is ranked and all, but I really don't understand how you can say this. They are ranked 19. Who should they be ahead of?
The three best teams Princeton has played are Pitt, Mich and American.
Should they be ahead of #15 Duke? What would Princeton's record be if they had played SCar, UConn, aTm, Ky, OU, FSU, NU and Syr as Duke has?
Should they be ahead of #14 KY who has played S.Car and Duke and has played and beaten Baylor and Louisville and OU? What would Princeton's record be against those five teams?
Should they be ahead of FSU who has played ND and UW and beaten Duke (and Pitt, btw).
Princeton could have challenged itself more and proven it deserved a higher ranking. Harvard played ND and UTC. Penn played Tenn. Princeton chose to play no one. Personally, considering their record, I'd cap their ranking at 20. Hey, maybe they're the best team in the country, but given their level of competition, there's no way to know that. They are free to prove they're "underrated" by winning some games in the tournament.
Frankly, I think it's giving them quite the benefit of the doubt already to have them ahead of teams like Minn, GW, Rutgers, OU, Syr, and UTC (Would Princeton beat Tenn?).
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larmarch5
Joined: 31 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 01/22/15 1:39 am ::: |
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Sometimes it's the match up. Some teams always look bad when they play each other.
Defensive strategy is to disrupt, to create chaos. Good defense can make good teams look terrible.
Sometimes players and sometimes teams have off nights. What puzzles me is how teams can change after halftime and I wonder why those adjustments couldn't have been made in a time out or substitution.
Not all games are officiated the same way. If mugging is allowed inside, well, hard to look good.
And, it seems to me that the voters seem to consider a loss just a loss rather than who the loss was against.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 01/22/15 10:09 am ::: |
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| larmarch5 wrote: |
Sometimes it's the match up. Some teams always look bad when they play each other.
Defensive strategy is to disrupt, to create chaos. Good defense can make good teams look terrible.
Sometimes players and sometimes teams have off nights. What puzzles me is how teams can change after halftime and I wonder why those adjustments couldn't have been made in a time out or substitution.
Not all games are officiated the same way. If mugging is allowed inside, well, hard to look good.
And, it seems to me that the voters seem to consider a loss just a loss rather than who the loss was against. |
Horrible teams can also make a good team look bad because they are so unskilled they just get in the way. I've seen that a lot. It can take even the best teams a good little bit to adjust to that.
On the subject of defense, mugging, and officiating, I give you Missouri. Their coach has apparently decided that since they have nothing going for them but a very short bench and a couple of good 3-point shooters, they are going to push, shove, grab, hold, trip, and otherwise disrupt every opposing team in order to try and, if not win, at least keep it close. Mostly they succeed in the latter and their games are beyond ugly. The officials seem disposed to look the other way, especially in Columbia, but they get away with a lot even on the road. It looks like hockey in sneakers and without sticks.
I agree that some teams always look bad when they play each other. Part of that has to be psychological, part of it is opposing coaching styles. As for changes at halftime, if you think about it, it's hard to make changes on the fly. Sometimes you need to sit down, analyze what's working and what's not, get a grip on the game, and come out with a different attitude. That's really not very easy to do in a 30 second or 2 minute timeout, or with a sub while things are happening. Anyway that's my take on it.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 01/22/15 10:34 am ::: |
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| larmarch5 wrote: |
| And, it seems to me that the voters seem to consider a loss just a loss rather than who the loss was against. |
Now, there's a good point: in the recent MN loss to MD, I'd have been tempted to move MN way UP in the polls, just for playing a (supposedly) much better MD team as closely as they did.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 01/22/15 11:20 am ::: |
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| larmarch5 wrote: |
And, it seems to me that the voters seem to consider a loss just a loss rather than who the loss was against. |
Not so sure about that.
As an example, a week ago, Ky was 10 and UNC was 12. After that, KY beat UF and lost to unranked LSU. It fell four spots to 14. UNC lost to #7 ND and beat Clemson; it didn't drop at all and is still 12.
Duke is still ranked #15 even with five losses because those losses were to the current ## 1, 2, 10, 16 and 17.
Tenn just swapped places with ND in the coaches poll (falling from 6 to 7 while ND rose from 7 to 6) after ND beat Tenn on Monday.
I think when you lose to a highly ranked team, you typically don't fall very far.
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 01/22/15 12:09 pm ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
| FollowtheCardinalRule wrote: |
| Princeton is vastly underrated. |
I'm not sure I agree with this. They are currently ranked #19/#21 in the polls, which would mean they are about the 20th best team in the nation. I know they have beaten Pitt and Michigan but that's pretty much it. Vastly would indicate you would think they should be substantially higher and I don't know how to justify that given who they have played thus far. |
I think it's very hard to say that Princeton is underrated, given the schedule. I also think there's a good chance that they end up ranked higher than they should be if they go undefeated in the regular season.
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