| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
FollowtheCardinalRule
Joined: 12 Oct 2011
Posts: 5153
Location: Denver
Back to top |
 Posted: 01/16/15 3:12 pm ::: |
Reply  |
|
| Shades wrote: |
| FollowtheCardinalRule wrote: |
Oh, they beat Notre Dame....a Notre Dame team without one of their best players in Turner.
|
Early season Notre Dame couldn't absorb the loss of a freshman? That's kind of a sad statement in itself. Apparently they couldn't absorb the loss of Reimer either. I guess they're like a finely tuned engine where if one of the pistons is missing, that expensive machine is undriveable. Too vulnerable. Not likely to be a championship team.
I guess I just tired of hearing the violins for Notre Dame. |
The thing is, regardless of how young Turner is--she brings a huge rebounding presence and provides Notre Dame with a different scoring option that they don't necessarily have without her. How would UConn do without Morgan Tuck?
I'm tired of people thinking that teams should be complete even when they have a valuable starter out.
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/16/15 3:14 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Shades wrote: |
| FollowtheCardinalRule wrote: |
Oh, they beat Notre Dame....a Notre Dame team without one of their best players in Turner.
|
Early season Notre Dame couldn't absorb the loss of a freshman? That's kind of a sad statement in itself. Apparently they couldn't absorb the loss of Reimer either. I guess they're like a finely tuned engine where if one of the pistons is missing, that expensive machine is undriveable. Too vulnerable. Not likely to be a championship team.
I guess I just tired of hearing the violins for Notre Dame. |
Really? Would S.Car be the same without Wilson? Texas can't absorb the loss of Atkins. Where would Louisville be without Moore or Hines-Allen? Where would Ohio St be without Mitchell?
ND was without a starting post. For UConn they had one day of practice to completely revamp their offense to try to deal with the loss. They had 5'9 and 5'10 guards playing power forward. How do you think that ND-UConn game would have gone if Turner had played and Tuck with her 25 pts and 9 rebounds hadn't? Lot easier to get those rebounds and putbacks over Hannah Huffman than it would have been over Brianna Turner, wasn't it.
It's not a "sad statement" at all. Every single team in the country is "vulnerable" to the loss of a key player. Every single one.
|
|
GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 14109
Back to top |
|
Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63762
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/16/15 4:05 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| FollowtheCardinalRule wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| FollowtheCardinalRule wrote: |
Oh, they beat Notre Dame....a Notre Dame team without one of their best players in Turner.
|
Early season Notre Dame couldn't absorb the loss of a freshman? That's kind of a sad statement in itself. Apparently they couldn't absorb the loss of Reimer either. I guess they're like a finely tuned engine where if one of the pistons is missing, that expensive machine is undriveable. Too vulnerable. Not likely to be a championship team.
I guess I just tired of hearing the violins for Notre Dame. |
The thing is, regardless of how young Turner is--she brings a huge rebounding presence and provides Notre Dame with a different scoring option that they don't necessarily have without her. How would UConn do without Morgan Tuck?
I'm tired of people thinking that teams should be complete even when they have a valuable starter out. |
Well it's pretty naive to think experience won't matter the rest of the way if so much of their championship hopes rest on a freshman. I say it will matter. Seems like we're not disagreeing on my key point that they're not built for a championship this year. Next year? We'll see.
_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
|
|
linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 5423
Back to top |
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
|
linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 5423
Back to top |
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
|
Homyonkel
Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 123
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/16/15 6:20 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| FollowtheCardinalRule wrote: |
| Homyonkel wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| bballjunkie wrote: |
| What's even funnier about the Stanford game comments is that NO other team has been able to duplicate Stanford's defensive plan, what does that say about those teams! |
That UConn hasn't played anyone else with a coach as good as Tara Vanderveer? |
How True, How True! But I must say, Muff is in that league, too. One truth is certain: No other teams have combined for as many victories over UConn in the past several years as Stanford and Notre Dame combined.
In response to Homerian comments earlier in the thread, it IS deserving of reiteration: UConn lost to a VERY PAINFULLY *average* Stanford team. UConn must accept full responsibility for the fact that they are, indeed, "Human", and are perfectly capable of failure. And yes, BOTH Stanford and UConn are gonna be better in March. Tara certainly wouldn't shy away from a re-match: why would the Cardinal fans mind? |
I'm certain that Tara wouldn't shy away from a re-match. But a fan might very well consider that that would be the end of the line the way UCONN has handled other ranked teams and the expected outcome of the So.Car. game. (The book has UCONN a 12 point favorite.) |
Honestly? If we really want to analyze UConn's season--let's look at what they've done. Oh, they beat Notre Dame....a Notre Dame team without one of their best players in Turner.
They beat a Duke team that has always played like a deer in headlights against the Huskies.
Who else? I mean, a plucky squad from New York gave the Huskies some trouble. For all the people claiming that UConn has beaten ranked teams....I don't see a single overly impressive victory.
I mean. Vandy is nice. DePaul is okay, but if your biggest argument that UConn should be ranked no. 1 is the margin of victory over a Duke team that has historically been a dud against UConn....I'm not sure it flies. |
Wow! You put an awful lot of words in my mouth. I simply mentioned "ranked teams". Frankly, I don't have great respect for them either but as Link says, who has played a harder schedule (and won)?
And UCONN's victories don't impress you. Whose do? South Carolina's?
|
|
insidewinder
Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 240
Back to top |
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/16/15 8:42 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Homyonkel wrote: |
Wow! You put an awful lot of words in my mouth. I simply mentioned "ranked teams". Frankly, I don't have great respect for them either but as Link says, who has played a harder schedule (and won)?
|
I only see UConn having played three teams in the AP top 25.
# 7 Notre Dame sans Brianna Turner
#16 Duke
#13 Stanford, but they don't pass your "and won" caveat.
Ky has beaten ## 3 and 4 and lost to ##1 and 16, so theirs is tougher.
TX has beaten ## 6 and 13
Duke has played a far tougher schedule with 1, 2, 10, 13, 17, 20 and 25 but they lost 5 of those.
Notre Dame has played 2, 8, 12, 20 and 25, losing to #2, so theirs is tougher.
Tenn beat 9 and 13 and lost to 4 so theirs is tougher.
There's probably others. And as conference play continues, there will be more.
|
|
Homyonkel
Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 123
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/16/15 8:53 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Homyonkel wrote: |
Wow! You put an awful lot of words in my mouth. I simply mentioned "ranked teams". Frankly, I don't have great respect for them either but as Link says, who has played a harder schedule (and won)?
|
I only see UConn having played three teams in the AP top 25.
# 7 Notre Dame sans Brianna Turner
#16 Duke
#13 Stanford, but they don't pass your "and won" caveat.
Ky has beaten ## 3 and 4 and lost to ##1 and 16, so theirs is tougher.
TX has beaten ## 6 and 13
Duke has played a far tougher schedule with 1, 2, 10, 13, 17, 20 and 25 but they lost 5 of those.
Notre Dame has played 2, 8, 12, 20 and 25, losing to #2, so theirs is tougher.
There's probably others. And as conference play continues, there will be more. |
Obviously, when it comes to conference games EVERYONE'S schedule will be harder than UCONN's.
|
|
linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 5423
Back to top |
|
GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8225
Location: Heisenberg
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/20/15 5:11 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| linkster wrote: |
You are right and I feel a bit lame doing it but when a defender has both feet in the restricted zone and the call is a charge I question the competence of the officials. |
Perhaps you should also question your understanding of the restricted area rule.
It does not apply to the primary defender at all. It applies only to a secondary defender who establishes a defensive position within the restricted area "for the purpose of drawing an offensive foul." The rule also doesn't apply if the offensive player initially received the ball in the Lower Defensive Box. A ref has to figure out how all those requirements apply to a given collision within a second or two. |
|
insidewinder
Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 240
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/20/15 5:32 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| linkster wrote: |
| insidewinder wrote: |
| linkster wrote: |
| GEF34 wrote: |
| linkster wrote: |
And to the poster who wondered what Tara's secret defense was, it consisted of: Brenda Pantoja, Charles Gonzalez, Cathi Cornell  |
That's why they called a foul at the end on Moriah Jefferson when she hit Amber Orrange's arm when she shot the 3 with 4 seconds left in the game, giving her a chance for a 4 point play and a chance to win the game in regulation right.  |
The 5th foul on Nurse was called a charge when the replay clearly showed the defender's feet inside the restricted area. But it's not just wrong calls, refs can find fouls if they look for them, and not find them when they don't. But the think that really puzzles me is that all the high screens that freed up the Stanford guards for those drives at Maples were called offensive fouls when they did it at Tenn. (4 called in the 1st half alone). I'm not one to cry about fouls on these boards but Maples has had a strange effect on ref's eyes for a long time. Not just against UConn. |
If you have been reduced to blaming the refs for the loss you haven't got much of a case. That's a bit lame. An L is an L. If an early season W counts, so does an early season L.
I'm sure you are right - refs adore Stanford at Maples. I wonder why? Perhaps Tara is more charming than she seems. Be that as it may I'm sure UConn never gets home court advantage. Nobody does. Just works at Maples... |
refs adore Stanford at Maples. I wonder why?
Maybe because refs are hired by conferences and that team gets most of their work in the west?
If you have been reduced to blaming the refs for the loss you haven't got much of a case. That's a bit lame.
You are right and I feel a bit lame doing it but when a defender has both feet in the restricted zone and the call is a charge I question the competence of the officials. That officiating team won't be doing many NCAA games.
As evidence, I submit UConn's game by game foul totals. You will notice that the Stanford game is an outlier. I know that doesn't prove anything but it certainly gives one pause. And for further evidence That game was also an outlier for Stanford's record of fouling this year. 24 is the most called on either UConn or Stanford this year.
http://www.wbbstate.com/teams/CONN/performances/team/PF
http://www.wbbstate.com/teams/STAN/performances/team/PF |
Except in this case the three refs you name do not just ref west coast games. And that still does not explain why the "jobbed by the refs" effect only happens for Stanford. When Stanford (or anyone else) plays away at UConn the refs are perfectly neutral in a way they are not when UConn travels? Refs are more intimidated by 7000 fans out west than they are by twice that number and the UConn media hype at UConn? Makes perfect sense to me, yes it does.
Maybe it is just me, but seems to me fans of a team that plays as well as UConn, wins as much as UConn, has the talent that UConn always has, and has the best coach in the game, should not be whining about the officiating the one game they lose every couple of years. Ya lost, and to a not particularly good Stanford team. Deal with it.
|
|
ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 11140
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/21/15 11:44 am ::: |
Reply |
|
To have any credence at all as a blaming-the-refs whiner, you have to point out an equal number of games where the refs gave you the game by calling bad fouls on the other team.
And you know, it's funny but I never see many posts like that ...
_________________
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
|
|
bballjunkie
Joined: 12 Aug 2014
Posts: 785
Back to top |
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/21/15 12:22 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| linkster wrote: |
| I'm not one to cry about fouls on these boards . |
Only when UConn loses right? So you had a whole year off last year.
|
|
linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 5423
Back to top |
|
insidewinder
Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 240
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/21/15 1:43 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| linkster wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| linkster wrote: |
You are right and I feel a bit lame doing it but when a defender has both feet in the restricted zone and the call is a charge I question the competence of the officials. |
Perhaps you should also question your understanding of the restricted area rule.
It does not apply to the primary defender at all. It applies only to a secondary defender who establishes a defensive position within the restricted area "for the purpose of drawing an offensive foul." The rule also doesn't apply if the offensive player initially received the ball in the Lower Defensive Box. A ref has to figure out how all those requirements apply to a given collision within a second or two. |
I understand the rule. The call on Nurse came when she drove past her "primary defender" out on the right perimeter and drove the base line. The secondary defender came over and established a defensive position just prior to the contact, except that both her feet were in the restricted area. I don't see how replay can be used to determine who last touched a ball going OOB or to determine if a shot was behind the arc but not if a player was in the restricted area. Allowing for Glen's comments, it's still a black and white call when it's a secondary defender and the player didn't receive the ball in the low post.
I already stated that I am uncomfortable questioning officiating after a loss. The fact remains that in this game, the crew called 48 fouls, which are far and away the most called on either team all this season and probably last season also. Maybe they both just coincidently forgot their training in this game and all those fouls would have been called by any group of refs but the weight of the evidence suggests otherwise to me. As I also stated, the same high screens that the Trees used successfully against UConn were called illegal when they played at TBA. Four were called in the 1st half. One of the officiating crews got it wrong and in any event it's curious that both crews called it in favor of the home team.
Officials tailor their calls to the conference which to me is a problem in wcbb. Officials should be employees of the NCAA. I watch an SEC game and see players get knocked around in the paint without a whistle. Bodies crash into each other on rebounds without a foul and yet Tuck fouled out of the Stanford game on a brush going for a rebound. Watch a Duke-UNC game and then tell me that refs don't tailor their calls to what the conference wants. Now I'm sure that there were calls on Stanford that were wrong, but the 2 UConn players fouled out on BS calls very late in a tight game.
Again, I doubt that crew will be around when a UConn loss will really matter.
And yes, isn't it horrible that a UConn fan is complaining about officiating?  |
Or maybe it was a just big early season game and the teams fouled more? Or it was a big early season game between two teams with young players and the young players fouled more? Or the officials were more vigilant early season and became more lenient later? I can think of many reasons that make a lot more sense. I do not think officials tailor calls to conferences. They say to themselves, ok I'm at the home court of an SEC team, I will let more fouls go?
Yes, it is kinda horrible that a UConn fan is blaming officials for a loss. UConn loses so few games. The program is the envy of the entire sport. How hard can it be to be gracious and not go the blame the officials route the rare times they do lose? They should not have let Stanford be close enough for the officials to make any difference.
|
|
|
|
