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NoDakSt



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PostPosted: 11/30/14 11:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

larmarch5 wrote:
How big a fanbase did the Oregon Ducks have when they led the nation in scoring last year? I wonder what they're thinking THIS year. Ducks just lost to American University 72-64.

"Oregon struggled to score early and trailed 29-18 at halftime". 18 points in a half. I watched one game and you could see the players physically put the breaks on themselves in order to play the way Kelly Graves is demanding they play. They have certainly curtailed their offense, but I didn't see any uptake in their defense.

Is it egotistical for a coach to ignore his or her players' strengths in order to force them into his or her system?


Maybe the defense is that much better. I don't know If the Ducks held anyone to 72 points in the Westhead era. Seriously, as a Coach, especially a new coach, I think you play your game, establish your foundation, set your rules. You're building for the future but you just delay that if you give into the old ways.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 12/01/14 10:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I always felt if I was going to lose, I was going to lose doing what I believed in ...



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larmarch5



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PostPosted: 12/01/14 12:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well, scoring 18 points in a half isn't going to gin up a lot of excitement or expand the fan base. WBB is hopefully more than a coach's system. Of course it took many years for the men's college game to break out of the Bobby Knight standard and get exciting.


bullsky



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PostPosted: 12/01/14 7:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Warlick can recruit because she has the Tennessee Logo on her back. However, homegirl couldn't manage a Dunkin Donuts, let alone a collegiate basketball team.

Tennessee will always be good. They will continue to get good recruits because of the legacy they've built. The question for the powers that be is do you want to be a team that wins 20-24 games every year and exits in the Sweet Sixteen/Elite 8 or do you want to be greater than that? If you're hopeful for the latter, I simply don't think Warlick is the answer.



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ucdt3



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PostPosted: 12/02/14 12:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

dfineguy wrote:
Have any of Geno's assistants been successful when they take a Div.1 head coaching job right out of UConn? No one comes to mind, but I may well be forgetting somebody. Plus Cardoza followed Staley. She could be great and still be a letdown after Dawn's tenure at Temple.

Then you look at Muffet McGraw's assistants coming out of Notre Dame. She is obviously a great teacher of coaching. Fennelly, McGuff, Coquese Washington and now Tsipis at GW who seems poised for success in the next couple of years. And I'm guessing Niele Ivey entertains several offers after each season, but she's waiting til she's ready. Tara does pretty well, but Summitt had several assistants move out and up without great success. As far as I'm concerned the jury is still out on Mitchell.

Teaching coaching is a specialty that even the greatest head coaches don't have in their resumes. That's one of the things that make McGraw so special.


Washington's PSU squad is 1-5 and just lost to Samford. Shocked


And what's your definition of success because I don't see any Final 4s among that crowd and none any time soon??? The one time Fennelly got by UConn (due to a host of injuries for the Huskies) he couldn't get by Georgia to get to his first. Even McGraw's one title came after UConn lost its 2 Senior AAs to career ending injuries and an atrocious shooting night by the GOAT.
Fighting Artichoke



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PostPosted: 12/02/14 7:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ucdt3 wrote:
dfineguy wrote:
Have any of Geno's assistants been successful when they take a Div.1 head coaching job right out of UConn? No one comes to mind, but I may well be forgetting somebody. Plus Cardoza followed Staley. She could be great and still be a letdown after Dawn's tenure at Temple.

Then you look at Muffet McGraw's assistants coming out of Notre Dame. She is obviously a great teacher of coaching. Fennelly, McGuff, Coquese Washington and now Tsipis at GW who seems poised for success in the next couple of years. And I'm guessing Niele Ivey entertains several offers after each season, but she's waiting til she's ready. Tara does pretty well, but Summitt had several assistants move out and up without great success. As far as I'm concerned the jury is still out on Mitchell.

Teaching coaching is a specialty that even the greatest head coaches don't have in their resumes. That's one of the things that make McGraw so special.


Washington's PSU squad is 1-5 and just lost to Samford. Shocked


And what's your definition of success because I don't see any Final 4s among that crowd and none any time soon??? The one time Fennelly got by UConn (due to a host of injuries for the Huskies) he couldn't get by Georgia to get to his first. Even McGraw's one title came after UConn lost its 2 Senior AAs to career ending injuries and an atrocious shooting night by the GOAT.

So a FF is needed before a coach is considered good? I believe that you are setting the bar far too high. And you seem to be questioning McGraw's credibility as a coach because she only has one NC and that was a year in which UConn suffered injuries? Do you have an asterisk next to UConn's 2014 title then?

I think it's very reasonable to assert that Muffet's assistant coaches have fared better than Geno's assistants when they have moved on to head coaching jobs. How can you argue against that except by setting the bar for success so high that both coaches are 0-0 by your metric?


grrlagent



Joined: 20 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: 12/03/14 1:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LitePal wrote:
My point being that salaries for wbb are totally out of control and it becomes a coin flip as to who will be successful. The spending of ADs to land a "big name" is bound to occasionally backfire, especially when someone like Caldwell was selected because everyone drank the Kool-Aid.


I have to say that I drank the Kool-Aid. It turns out it was a knock-off supermarket brand I drank. We. Are. Screwed. LSU is not going to buy her out for at least 3 or 4 years. She'll run the program down even more than Van would have primarily because she can't recruit and she can't coach offense. Maybe Tyler will bloom and join the SEC in 2019.

Can you say 2-4 y'all? AND we play Tyler and his Techsters tonight. Ought to be interesting.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 12/03/14 3:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

grrlagent wrote:
LitePal wrote:
My point being that salaries for wbb are totally out of control and it becomes a coin flip as to who will be successful. The spending of ADs to land a "big name" is bound to occasionally backfire, especially when someone like Caldwell was selected because everyone drank the Kool-Aid.


I have to say that I drank the Kool-Aid. It turns out it was a knock-off supermarket brand I drank. We. Are. Screwed. LSU is not going to buy her out for at least 3 or 4 years. She'll run the program down even more than Van would have primarily because she can't recruit and she can't coach offense. Maybe Tyler will bloom and join the SEC in 2019.

Can you say 2-4 y'all? AND we play Tyler and his Techsters tonight. Ought to be interesting.


It's no different than hiring for any other job, or from recruiting for that matter. You take the person whose background best suggests a likelihood for success. But that doesn't mean they'll definitely succeed, and it doesn't mean that some other person with much less of a resume won't turn out to be a superstar. Reality is that most coaches don't succeed and end up getting fired (although in WBB it seems fewer get fired, but not because they were great successes, but only because far too often the standards are set lower than for MBB or FB or even some other sports.)


Durantula



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PostPosted: 12/04/14 6:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
(although in WBB it seems fewer get fired, but not because they were great successes, but only because far too often the standards are set lower than for MBB or FB or even some other sports.)


I don't know if it makes much sense to compare WBB hirings and firings to MBB and FB. They are honestly more comparable to other non-revenue sports like soccer or volleyball. Even that comparison might be tough because women's basketball coaches make a lot more than volleyball coaches, so it gives basically even less incentive to buy them out. In men's basketball and football you will see coaches fired maybe a little quicker because the athletics department relies on the revenues from these programs so much. If you lose year after year and then season ticket sales dwindle, you can bite the bullet on a buy out and go get someone else, its a risk worth taking.

Since women's basketball loses a good amount of money for most programs, does it really make much sense to fire a coach who may have a few years left? It just creates a bigger loss. A team like Arizona has been bad and maybe they should get a new coach but if their players are graduating and staying out of trouble it seems to make more sense to wait until the contract is up. They could hire a coach from a top 20 program but financially it isn't going to change much in my opinion. A school like UCLA could hire Muffet McGraw and they still would lose a ton of money because in a big city like that with so many entertainment options, you aren't getting crowds unless you give away free tickets or something. Does it mean AD's have low standards? Maybe but I don't think its fair to compare any other sport to MBB and FB because the economics make the decision making much different.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 12/04/14 7:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Durantula wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
(although in WBB it seems fewer get fired, but not because they were great successes, but only because far too often the standards are set lower than for MBB or FB or even some other sports.)


I don't know if it makes much sense to compare WBB hirings and firings to MBB and FB. They are honestly more comparable to other non-revenue sports like soccer or volleyball. Even that comparison might be tough because women's basketball coaches make a lot more than volleyball coaches, so it gives basically even less incentive to buy them out. In men's basketball and football you will see coaches fired maybe a little quicker because the athletics department relies on the revenues from these programs so much. If you lose year after year and then season ticket sales dwindle, you can bite the bullet on a buy out and go get someone else, its a risk worth taking.

Since women's basketball loses a good amount of money for most programs, does it really make much sense to fire a coach who may have a few years left? It just creates a bigger loss. A team like Arizona has been bad and maybe they should get a new coach but if their players are graduating and staying out of trouble it seems to make more sense to wait until the contract is up. They could hire a coach from a top 20 program but financially it isn't going to change much in my opinion. A school like UCLA could hire Muffet McGraw and they still would lose a ton of money because in a big city like that with so many entertainment options, you aren't getting crowds unless you give away free tickets or something. Does it mean AD's have low standards? Maybe but I don't think its fair to compare any other sport to MBB and FB because the economics make the decision making much different.


I disagree. Those young women are working just as hard as the men and are just as deserving of quality coaching. It's not right and it's not fair to them to tell them they aren't worth the trouble or expense. They deserve the opportunity to succeed.


Durantula



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PostPosted: 12/04/14 7:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:

I disagree. Those young women are working just as hard as the men and are just as deserving of quality coaching. It's not right and it's not fair to them to tell them they aren't worth the trouble or expense. They deserve the opportunity to succeed.


I mean you can get quality coaching and still be on a losing team. The amount of talent available in girls basketball is just much lower which is why the parity isn't there. Just because a coach may not be a great recruiter it doesn't mean they aren't making their kids better, being good role models, helping mold the student-athletes into young women. Just because a team is losing doesn't mean the players want a coaching change which is why sometimes you see an uproar when coach X is fired and the players feel like they deserved a longer leash.

In men's basketball just because you see more coaching changes it doesn't mean all these kids from schools who fired their coach are getting better coaching. Again a lot of it is probably economics, selling season tickets. If MBB didn't have to worry about that you would see AD's give coaches more time because sometimes 4 years isn't enough. You miss on your first recruiting class in which you come in late in the process and are behind in developing relationships and it can set you back. And its not just about young women. Do you see the men's baseball team or men's soccer teams fire coaches with multiple years left on a deal if they aren't getting NCAA violations or something?


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 12/04/14 7:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Durantula wrote:
Do you see the men's baseball team or men's soccer teams fire coaches with multiple years left on a deal if they aren't getting NCAA violations or something?


Yes, at schools that actually care about those sports.

There's only one reason why underperforming coaches are kept around, and that's because the school just doesn't care about that team's success. And that attitude is far too common in the WBB field.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 12/05/14 10:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Durantula wrote:
Do you see the men's baseball team or men's soccer teams fire coaches with multiple years left on a deal if they aren't getting NCAA violations or something?


Yes, at schools that actually care about those sports.

There's only one reason why underperforming coaches are kept around, and that's because the school just doesn't care about that team's success. And that attitude is far too common in the WBB field.


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NoDakSt



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PostPosted: 12/28/14 12:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The annual bun warming at Vandy has begun.

Vandy is 7-4 with losses to UCONN and Arizona State on neutral sites, a loss to Marquette on the road and most recently, a loss to (who I think are a good team) Dayton at home. Next up, James Madison on Monday.

Balcomb isn't in jeopardy but Vandy isn't looking stellar. Injuries are factoring in to the Dores season as against Dayton, pretty much the entire post rotation wasn't available. But with perennial powers LSU, Kentucky, and Tenn looking suspect, this would have been a good year for Vandy to stake a strong claim in the league. Also, I don't think Vandy has any signees for next year which tends to make people nervous (See Jim Foster: Ohio State).


Shades



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PostPosted: 12/28/14 2:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NoDakSt wrote:
The annual bun warming at Vandy has begun.

Vandy is 7-4 with losses to UCONN and Arizona State on neutral sites, a loss to Marquette on the road and most recently, a loss to (who I think are a good team) Dayton at home. Next up, James Madison on Monday.

Balcomb isn't in jeopardy but Vandy isn't looking stellar. Injuries are factoring in to the Dores season as against Dayton, pretty much the entire post rotation wasn't available. But with perennial powers LSU, Kentucky, and Tenn looking suspect, this would have been a good year for Vandy to stake a strong claim in the league. Also, I don't think Vandy has any signees for next year which tends to make people nervous (See Jim Foster: Ohio State).


Wasn't this your topic?
http://boards.rebkell.net/viewtopic.php?t=82232



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NoDakSt



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PostPosted: 12/28/14 2:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yeah....she's a 2016 recruit.

No bites for 2015.


Shades



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PostPosted: 12/28/14 2:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

"Major" get for 2016 not a factor?



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NoDakSt



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PostPosted: 12/28/14 2:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just reporting what I'm reading.


Durantula



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PostPosted: 12/28/14 3:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Vandy has no seniors, so its not like they need to replace anyone. With their biggest recruit in maybe program history coming in 2016 I think they are fine. Its one thing if they needed 2015 recruits to replace graduating kids and kept missing on them but its another if they are just deciding to prioritize 2016 and move past 2015.


summertime blues



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PostPosted: 12/28/14 4:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

With Penn State losing to pretty much all and sundry, is Coquese Washington's chair smoldering yet? Or is WBB just not important?



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Durantula



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PostPosted: 12/28/14 4:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
With Penn State losing to pretty much all and sundry, is Coquese Washington's chair smoldering yet? Or is WBB just not important?


They just went to the Sweet 16 and she won conference coach of the year. I'm pretty sure they will accept a rebuilding year but the bigger question to me is whether they have any impact kids coming in next season.


PRballer



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PostPosted: 12/28/14 5:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

She's fine and obviously had success for the past seasons, but it's like she didn't plan for anything after that last class with Maggie Lucas graduated. The cupboard is bare and some good recruiting would have covered them for a bit.

Just odd, but assuming Penn State will bounce back with the incoming recruits and this young squad. I'm sure this season will be considered an anomaly.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 12/28/14 5:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PRballer wrote:
She's fine and obviously had success for the past seasons, but it's like she didn't plan for anything after that last class with Maggie Lucas graduated. The cupboard is bare and some good recruiting would have covered them for a bit.

Just odd, but assuming Penn State will bounce back with the incoming recruits and this young squad. I'm sure this season will be considered an anomaly.


Actually they have quite a lot of good young talent. It's really just not gelling very well.

They are shockingly bad.


PUmatty



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PostPosted: 02/03/15 10:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Two-thirds through the season, I really hope we can add Sharon Versyp to this list. Last night, Purdue was clobbered by Indiana, of all teams, including being down more than 20 at halftime. Boilers are now 3-8 in the Big Ten and one game out of last in the conference.

Results are terrible, and play on the court looks even worse. Players are routinely thrown under the bus by the coach. Promising freshmen can't get off the bench. Attendance, which used to be among the best in the nation, has plummeted.

Versyp has never taken a team of her own recruits passed the second round. She has never had one of her recruits drafted. We are on the way to our worst record in at least 30 years. Her total destruction through incompetence of what used to be nationally relevant program is almost complete.


ripleydc



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PostPosted: 02/03/15 11:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
Versyp has never taken a team of her own recruits passed the second round. She has never had one of her recruits drafted. We are on the way to our worst record in at least 30 years. Her total destruction through incompetence of what used to be nationally relevant program is almost complete.

I think it's safe to say that there won't be any more transfers from Maryland dropping like manna from heaven into West Lafayette. That only works if the teams are in different conferences. No more Drey Mingos or Whitney Bays. Intra-conference transfers are a definite no-no.


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