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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 11/17/14 11:10 am ::: Coaches Hot Seat - 2014-15 edition |
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So has Nikki Caldwell replaced Joanne Boyle on the hottest seat?
UVA is 2-0 including a win over OhSt. Reality is we won't know much about UVA until ACC play begins because they have an embarrassingly bad OOC schedule. Not even the ACC-Big10 challenge saves it as they drew Illinois. Maybe it's a coach-saving schedule? But at least they're winning.
LSU on the other hand, with the exception of a matchup next Saturday vs Rutgers, has an equally pathetic OOC schedule, but they kicked it off with a blowout loss to Arkansas-Little Rock - on the same day, by the way, that in-state star Kalani Brown committed to Baylor, further highlighting Caldwell's failures on the recruiting trail.
Who else needs asbestos underwear these days?
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JACKOWACKO
Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 2884 Location: Right now? Cambridge
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Happycappie25
Joined: 07 Feb 2006 Posts: 4174 Location: QUEENS!!!!
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Posted: 11/17/14 1:17 pm ::: |
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I know she got extended but Kelsey I'd keep an eye on...Badgers are just that bad.
Otherwise those sound right for now...have an interesting one on Jump/Push watch but I'll keep it under wraps for now.
_________________ "Leave it to the NCAA women's basketball committee to turn a glass slipper into glass ceiling" Graham Hays
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7851 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 11/17/14 1:54 pm ::: |
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Once again, what is this "in-state" silliness? Recruiting at the majors is *national* these days and most people realize that. "In-state" is mostly for mid-majors, and public mid-majors at that. Get over it.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011 Posts: 2819 Location: Indiana
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Posted: 11/17/14 2:00 pm ::: |
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summertime blues wrote: |
Once again, what is this "in-state" silliness? Recruiting at the majors is *national* these days and most people realize that. "In-state" is mostly for mid-majors, and public mid-majors at that. Get over it. |
That is NOT true. You want to lock up your top in state recruits if you are at a major program...and not doing so does not make the local fan base happy. When the top kids in Indiana don't select Purdue or Notre Dame and instead choose to go to UConn or Tennessee or wherever, it upsets the local fan bases. They question why the coach can't get those kids to "stay home". It's pretty important to lock up the borders at the high major level.
Indiana could be slightly different because of the huge love of basketball, but I would assume it translates at least to a lesser extent to most states.
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004 Posts: 11050 Location: Lost in D.C.
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Posted: 11/17/14 2:30 pm ::: |
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purduefanatic wrote: |
summertime blues wrote: |
Once again, what is this "in-state" silliness? Recruiting at the majors is *national* these days and most people realize that. "In-state" is mostly for mid-majors, and public mid-majors at that. Get over it. |
That is NOT true. You want to lock up your top in state recruits if you are at a major program...and not doing so does not make the local fan base happy. When the top kids in Indiana don't select Purdue or Notre Dame and instead choose to go to UConn or Tennessee or wherever, it upsets the local fan bases. They question why the coach can't get those kids to "stay home". It's pretty important to lock up the borders at the high major level.
Indiana could be slightly different because of the huge love of basketball, but I would assume it translates at least to a lesser extent to most states. |
I agree - getting in-state recruits, particularly the ones who aren't at the tippy top in national recruiting, is pretty important.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7851 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 11/17/14 2:48 pm ::: |
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purduefanatic wrote: |
summertime blues wrote: |
Once again, what is this "in-state" silliness? Recruiting at the majors is *national* these days and most people realize that. "In-state" is mostly for mid-majors, and public mid-majors at that. Get over it. |
That is NOT true. You want to lock up your top in state recruits if you are at a major program...and not doing so does not make the local fan base happy. When the top kids in Indiana don't select Purdue or Notre Dame and instead choose to go to UConn or Tennessee or wherever, it upsets the local fan bases. They question why the coach can't get those kids to "stay home". It's pretty important to lock up the borders at the high major level.
Indiana could be slightly different because of the huge love of basketball, but I would assume it translates at least to a lesser extent to most states. |
Not true of Tennessee, but that may be in part due to the geographical oddity of the state. East Tennessee, where Knoxville is located, has less in common with, say, Memphis, than it does with north Georgia, where a good number of Lady Vol players have come from. While there have been some significant Tennessee players on the Lady Vols (Kellie Jolly and Glory Johnson come immediately to mind, and Alexa Middleton is the latest) most of them in recent years have been from elsewhere. And how many native Nutmeg Staters play for UConn? Texas and California are of course different because of the size and population of the states, but even a mid-major program like JMU has less than half its team coming from Virginia. UVA has 2 of 12 players from Virginia. At Wisconsin, 3 of 15 are in-staters. At UNC, it's 4 of 13; Florida State, 3 of 14; Penn State, 2 of 12 Rutgers, 5 of 14 (and this after C. Viv some years ago said she was going to concentrate on recruiting in NJ!). Shall I go on?
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7851 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004 Posts: 11050 Location: Lost in D.C.
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Posted: 11/17/14 2:58 pm ::: |
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summertime blues wrote: |
Not true of Tennessee, but that may be in part due to the geographical oddity of the state. East Tennessee, where Knoxville is located, has less in common with, say, Memphis, than it does with north Georgia, where a good number of Lady Vol players have come from. While there have been some significant Tennessee players on the Lady Vols (Kellie Jolly and Glory Johnson come immediately to mind, and Alexa Middleton is the latest) most of them in recent years have been from elsewhere. And how many native Nutmeg Staters play for UConn? Texas and California are of course different because of the size and population of the states, but even a mid-major program like JMU has less than half its team coming from Virginia. UVA has 2 of 12 players from Virginia. At Wisconsin, 3 of 15 are in-staters. At UNC, it's 4 of 13; Florida State, 3 of 14; Penn State, 2 of 12 Rutgers, 5 of 14 (and this after C. Viv some years ago said she was going to concentrate on recruiting in NJ!). Shall I go on? |
I'm not sure where you get your numbers, but the current RU roster has 5 players from New Jersey, plus one from Philly and one from Delaware. At least one of next year's recruits is from New Jersey as well.
And, to clarify my earlier comment, getting people from in state is dependent on having people who are good enough to play for your program, which is why Connecticut doesn't have a lot of Nutmeg State players.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011 Posts: 2819 Location: Indiana
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Posted: 11/17/14 3:00 pm ::: |
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summertime blues wrote: |
purduefanatic wrote: |
summertime blues wrote: |
Once again, what is this "in-state" silliness? Recruiting at the majors is *national* these days and most people realize that. "In-state" is mostly for mid-majors, and public mid-majors at that. Get over it. |
That is NOT true. You want to lock up your top in state recruits if you are at a major program...and not doing so does not make the local fan base happy. When the top kids in Indiana don't select Purdue or Notre Dame and instead choose to go to UConn or Tennessee or wherever, it upsets the local fan bases. They question why the coach can't get those kids to "stay home". It's pretty important to lock up the borders at the high major level.
Indiana could be slightly different because of the huge love of basketball, but I would assume it translates at least to a lesser extent to most states. |
Not true of Tennessee, but that may be in part due to the geographical oddity of the state. East Tennessee, where Knoxville is located, has less in common with, say, Memphis, than it does with north Georgia, where a good number of Lady Vol players have come from. While there have been some significant Tennessee players on the Lady Vols (Kellie Jolly and Glory Johnson come immediately to mind, and Alexa Middleton is the latest) most of them in recent years have been from elsewhere. And how many native Nutmeg Staters play for UConn? Texas and California are of course different because of the size and population of the states, but even a mid-major program like JMU has less than half its team coming from Virginia. UVA has 2 of 12 players from Virginia. At Wisconsin, 3 of 15 are in-staters. At UNC, it's 4 of 13; Florida State, 3 of 14; Penn State, 2 of 12 Rutgers, 5 of 14 (and this after C. Viv some years ago said she was going to concentrate on recruiting in NJ!). Shall I go on? |
LOL...you always have such an attitude. Not sure why but whatever. The point of this whole thing is that if there are ELITE players in your state that can HELP your program, to let them leave the state is NOT good and gets the natives restless. If the players aren't good enough to help Purdue or Notre Dame win, they don't recruit them. But if they are capable of playing a meaningful role on the team, then it's an entirely different story. I don't recall myself or anyone ever saying that your team should be made up entirely of in-state kids. Good god...reading comprehension please.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11155
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Posted: 11/17/14 3:29 pm ::: |
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I think a lot of it is out of a coach's control ...
If a girl wants to get away from home, she's not going to go to a nearby school (and that doesn't mean she's unhappy at home -- a lot of kids want to just to grow up on their own a bit).
Had I been a recruited athlete growing up close to Berkeley, I would crossed it off my list immediately, through no fault of Cal's coaches. And of course sometimes it works the other way, but you just never know. We're dealing with 17-year-old girls here, and decisions are going to be made for reasons that they may not even remember two years later.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 11/17/14 3:34 pm ::: |
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beknighted wrote: |
purduefanatic wrote: |
summertime blues wrote: |
Once again, what is this "in-state" silliness? Recruiting at the majors is *national* these days and most people realize that. "In-state" is mostly for mid-majors, and public mid-majors at that. Get over it. |
That is NOT true. You want to lock up your top in state recruits if you are at a major program...and not doing so does not make the local fan base happy. When the top kids in Indiana don't select Purdue or Notre Dame and instead choose to go to UConn or Tennessee or wherever, it upsets the local fan bases. They question why the coach can't get those kids to "stay home". It's pretty important to lock up the borders at the high major level.
Indiana could be slightly different because of the huge love of basketball, but I would assume it translates at least to a lesser extent to most states. |
I agree - getting in-state recruits, particularly the ones who aren't at the tippy top in national recruiting, is pretty important. |
There is nearly ALWAYS an advantage to being the closest school. The player likely grew up a fan, there is pressure from family, friends, high school sweetheart to stay close to home. There's a comfort level because lots of friends and classmates are going there. Your parents can come see you play. It is far rarer that a 17 year old has decided definitely to go away from home for school, but that is usually clear early on.
If you are a major school and can't use that to your advantage and lose the star to an out-of-state school - particularly when you were on that player's short list - you have failed.
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gopher5
Joined: 17 Nov 2004 Posts: 3338
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Posted: 11/17/14 3:47 pm ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
I think a lot of it is out of a coach's control ...
If a girl wants to get away from home, she's not going to go to a nearby school (and that doesn't mean she's unhappy at home -- a lot of kids want to just to grow up on their own a bit).
Had I been a recruited athlete growing up close to Berkeley, I would crossed it off my list immediately, through no fault of Cal's coaches. And of course sometimes it works the other way, but you just never know. We're dealing with 17-year-old girls here, and decisions are going to be made for reasons that they may not even remember two years later. |
That's true. But for MN, there is only D-I school. There have been several players from the state who have gone on to successful careers at other schools (including nearby Iowa, Wisconsin, Creighton etc.) and were reportedly not recruited by the Gophers (which is the coaches' fault). It is not an easy job and you can't take everyone, but that is one of the things the new staff at MN is expected to improve upon.
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ladydawgs96
Joined: 23 Aug 2006 Posts: 734 Location: Georgia
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Posted: 11/17/14 4:02 pm ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
I think a lot of it is out of a coach's control ...
If a girl wants to get away from home, she's not going to go to a nearby school (and that doesn't mean she's unhappy at home -- a lot of kids want to just to grow up on their own a bit).
Had I been a recruited athlete growing up close to Berkeley, I would crossed it off my list immediately, through no fault of Cal's coaches. And of course sometimes it works the other way, but you just never know. We're dealing with 17-year-old girls here, and decisions are going to be made for reasons that they may not even remember two years later. |
One thing that I also wonder about a lot is how much distance really matters anymore. With technology allowing us to communicate "face to face" across the country, will homesickness play as much a factor in choosing a school? Another thing is that we have a lot of cities where people aren't native, but rather transplants. Atlanta being one of those cities. Georgia fans tend to argue a lot about Landers', Mark Richt's and Mark Fox's inability to keep top-talent "home", yet many of the metro Atlanta kids were born elsewhere and grew up in families that rooted for a team other than Georgia. I'll look at some of these kids' bios and notice they've only lived a few years in Georgia. I think the pull of the "home" school is often overstated. However, I will point out that it can be a sign that the coach has alienated high school/ AAU coaches and these coaches and they will steer recruits elsewhere.
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FollowtheCardinalRule
Joined: 12 Oct 2011 Posts: 5153 Location: Denver
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Posted: 11/17/14 4:12 pm ::: |
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Butts at Arizona.
You have to wonder how warm the seat is beginning to get for Kevin McGuff given the historical success that has existed at Ohio State. He'll get a pass this year with the injuries--but Ohio State was once the best team in the Big 10--how the mighty have fallen.
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004 Posts: 11050 Location: Lost in D.C.
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Posted: 11/17/14 4:40 pm ::: |
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FollowtheCardinalRule wrote: |
Butts at Arizona.
You have to wonder how warm the seat is beginning to get for Kevin McGuff given the historical success that has existed at Ohio State. He'll get a pass this year with the injuries--but Ohio State was once the best team in the Big 10--how the mighty have fallen. |
Yeah. Not this year, as you say, but next year . . . ?
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 11/17/14 4:53 pm ::: |
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ladydawgs96 wrote: |
One thing that I also wonder about a lot is how much distance really matters anymore. |
It still matters immensely. It's easier to see by watching football because the sample size is so much larger. The home school advantage is alive and well.
Skype doesn't solve (1) parents, and often even grandparents, wanting to be able to easily get to games to watch their child play; (2) kids growing up as fans of "State U"; (3) kids having friends, classmates and teammates going to the same school; and (4) wanting to stay close to or go to the same college as a high school sweetheart.
Some of these are less important and the draw far less when the player didn't grown up in the state, and certainly these don't apply to everyone and some kids are more than happy to go away to school. But geography remains a huge, and often insurmountable, issue in recruiting.
Last edited by ArtBest23 on 11/17/14 5:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Fighting Artichoke
Joined: 12 Dec 2012 Posts: 4040
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Posted: 11/17/14 4:55 pm ::: |
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FollowtheCardinalRule wrote: |
Butts at Arizona.
You have to wonder how warm the seat is beginning to get for Kevin McGuff given the historical success that has existed at Ohio State. He'll get a pass this year with the injuries--but Ohio State was once the best team in the Big 10--how the mighty have fallen. |
I think McGuff is fine. There were no women recruited in Foster's last year and McGuff's first recruiting class was one of the highest rated in the country. So far, his recruits have only played 2 games, so he has plenty of time before the clock starts ticking. And of course his short roster has now been decimated by injury, so he gets a pass this year anyway.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 11/17/14 5:10 pm ::: |
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beknighted wrote: |
FollowtheCardinalRule wrote: |
Butts at Arizona.
You have to wonder how warm the seat is beginning to get for Kevin McGuff given the historical success that has existed at Ohio State. He'll get a pass this year with the injuries--but Ohio State was once the best team in the Big 10--how the mighty have fallen. |
Yeah. Not this year, as you say, but next year . . . ? |
He's only in his second year, he was handed a rebuilding project, he's dramatically improved recruiting, and any problems this year will be chalked up to the incredible run of knee injuries. I'd say McGuff's seat is only slightly warmer than Geno's. In other words, it's ice cold. If he's struggling three years from now, then he belongs in the discussion.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11155
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Posted: 11/17/14 6:22 pm ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
ladydawgs96 wrote: |
One thing that I also wonder about a lot is how much distance really matters anymore. |
It still matters immensely. It's easier to see by watching football because the sample size is so much larger. The home school advantage is alive and well.
Skype doesn't solve (1) parents, and often even grandparents, wanting to be able to easily get to games to watch their child play; (2) kids growing up as fans of "State U"; (3) kids having friends, classmates and teammates going to the same school; and (4) wanting to stay close to or go to the same college as a high school sweetheart.
Some of these are less important and the draw far less when the player didn't grown up in the state, and certainly these don't apply to everyone and some kids are more than happy to go away to school. But geography remains a huge, and often insurmountable, issue in recruiting. |
There's one other aspect, implied above about pissing off local high school and AAU coaches ... if you recruit a local girl and she doesn't work out, she's going to blame the school, and potentially poison the next recruit in line, who might be a much better player.
So if you recruit a local kid, she better be good enough to play a lot, or you may create more problems than you solve.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 11/17/14 6:53 pm ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
ladydawgs96 wrote: |
One thing that I also wonder about a lot is how much distance really matters anymore. |
It still matters immensely. It's easier to see by watching football because the sample size is so much larger. The home school advantage is alive and well.
Skype doesn't solve (1) parents, and often even grandparents, wanting to be able to easily get to games to watch their child play; (2) kids growing up as fans of "State U"; (3) kids having friends, classmates and teammates going to the same school; and (4) wanting to stay close to or go to the same college as a high school sweetheart.
Some of these are less important and the draw far less when the player didn't grown up in the state, and certainly these don't apply to everyone and some kids are more than happy to go away to school. But geography remains a huge, and often insurmountable, issue in recruiting. |
There's one other aspect, implied above about pissing off local high school and AAU coaches ... if you recruit a local girl and she doesn't work out, she's going to blame the school, and potentially poison the next recruit in line, who might be a much better player.
So if you recruit a local kid, she better be good enough to play a lot, or you may create more problems than you solve. |
It's almost a no-win situation, though. If you don't offer a local girl who really wants to play for State U and instead take an out of state player who the local community views as no better than the local girl (even though their view of the local girl may be inflated), that's going to piss off the local coaches and players too. A lot of coaches have gotten in trouble with in state schools by passing over local stars for out of state recruits. It's delicate to explain to her coach why you're not offerring her.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7851 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 11/17/14 9:31 pm ::: |
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Football is a lot different than basketball. There's a larger pool of athletes and a larger pool of scholarships. Football players seem more likely to stay closer to home, for some reason. Basketball players, especially elite ones, have usually played on travel teams and probably have gone to camps outside their home areas and seen a little more of the world, so they may be more willing and even anxious to go elsewhere if they think it might be a better opportunity for them.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Richard 77
Joined: 19 Nov 2004 Posts: 4142 Location: Lake Mills, Wisconsin
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Posted: 11/17/14 10:10 pm ::: |
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Happycappie25 wrote: |
I know she got extended but Kelsey I'd keep an eye on...Badgers are just that bad.
Otherwise those sound right for now...have an interesting one on Jump/Push watch but I'll keep it under wraps for now. |
I don't agree. The jury is still out on the Badgers. I think they'll finish a lot higher that people will give them credit for. Including their peers and Charlie._________________ If you cannot inspire yourself to read a book about women's basketball, or any book about women's sports, you cannot inspire any young girl or boy to write a book about them. http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/Richardstrek |
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shadowboxer
Joined: 18 Jul 2008 Posts: 2126
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Posted: 11/18/14 5:32 pm ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
ladydawgs96 wrote: |
One thing that I also wonder about a lot is how much distance really matters anymore. |
It still matters immensely. It's easier to see by watching football because the sample size is so much larger. The home school advantage is alive and well.
Skype doesn't solve (1) parents, and often even grandparents, wanting to be able to easily get to games to watch their child play; (2) kids growing up as fans of "State U"; (3) kids having friends, classmates and teammates going to the same school; and (4) wanting to stay close to or go to the same college as a high school sweetheart.
Some of these are less important and the draw far less when the player didn't grown up in the state, and certainly these don't apply to everyone and some kids are more than happy to go away to school. But geography remains a huge, and often insurmountable, issue in recruiting. |
There's one other aspect, implied above about pissing off local high school and AAU coaches ... if you recruit a local girl and she doesn't work out, she's going to blame the school, and potentially poison the next recruit in line, who might be a much better player.
So if you recruit a local kid, she better be good enough to play a lot, or you may create more problems than you solve. |
Another outcome of not recruiting from local schools/AAU clubs is how snubbed those coaches often feel, resulting in them steering their future top players to other local schools, in a type of retaliation. It may be short term or may taint that coach/school for years.
Also, in smaller, tightknit, communities, recruiting local talent has a definite positive impact on #of butts in the seat.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 11/20/14 12:27 am ::: |
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Okay, it's only week two but they just threw gasoline on the fire under Nikki Caldwell's seat. Lose to Tulane? At home? Score 45 pts total, only 18 in the first half? Seriously?
Never good to lose an early season supposed walkover game to an in-state school.
So what was Niki wearing tonight? Nomex suit I hope.
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