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ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550



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PostPosted: 10/23/14 3:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe you should save this rubbish for that troll board you frequent. I'm sure you and your buddy Tribble can have lots of fun trolling ND. I don't think anyone here wants this very good board cluttered with such garbage completely spurious and unrelated to the thread topic.


linkster



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: 10/23/14 4:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
linkster wrote:
Want to explain how a bookkeeper had 20K for entertaining Notre Dame footballers? Could she have acting as an agent of some Notre Dame booster?


More ignorant trolling. She went to jail for embezzlement. Her source of money had nothing to do with Notre Dame, and her only connection to Notre Dame was that she had paid $25 once to attend a regular Friday football luncheon along with 2,000 other people. That one payment was her one and only tenuous link to the university.

Do you act like this in all aspects of your life, simply making up nonsense? Or do you only do this when you're internet trolling?


What did I make up? I only asked a question. The facts I posted were accurate. Do you actually think that she did this for years without anyone in the athletic dept ever hearing about her from an athlete? Isn't that exactly what was meant with the comment that "Malloy underscored that commitment personally in an unprecedented mandatory meeting with all coaches, other athletic-department staff and student-athletes the first day of spring semester. Notre Dame’s decision to get rid of its booster clubs for every sport is believed to be unprecedented among college athletic programs.
Do you honestly believe the president of ND would ban all "fan clubs" if this was just one crooked bookkeeper? Come on Art.

http://magazine.nd.edu/news/18566-investigation-lands-football-program-on-first-ever-probation/


artie, I am writing about Notre dame and college sport. Why do you want to change this into an attack on me? You suggested I made up the story about the employee. Then when I posted the link you failed to apologize and stopped talking facts and reverted to calling me names in every post you wrote. This is just what you did on other boards where you are no longer welcome. I wish you were a little more objective about ND. Make that a lot more objective.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 10/23/14 4:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This is a thread about the scandal at UNC and the report issued yesterday.

You drag up some completely unrelated incident that happened 20 years ago at Notre Dame.

Sure I could drag in all the suspensions UConn has received for failing to educate its athletes and all of Calhoun's cheating that got UConn on suspension, or all the rumors of why Tenn won't play UConn in WCBB any more, but that's not relevant to this topic at all and I don't do that.

You're just trolling. Don't even try to defend it. Take it to your troll board. I'm done.


Dennis1361



Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 248



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PostPosted: 10/23/14 4:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest apparently wants "links" or perhaps he wants pictures too.

Apparently experience does not count with him. Well Art I have been closely connected with several universities, the ones I attended and the ones I officiated at as well as worked at. My experience has been that most universities "cut corners" for athletes. In fact only one I can think of is "as clean as a hounds tooth." But hey if you want to believe that old state U is as pure as the driven snow you will have a great deal of company


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 10/23/14 5:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Dennis1361 wrote:
ArtBest apparently wants "links" or perhaps he wants pictures too.

Apparently experience does not count with him. Well Art I have been closely connected with several universities, the ones I attended and the ones I officiated at as well as worked at. My experience has been that most universities "cut corners" for athletes. In fact only one I can think of is "as clean as a hounds tooth." But hey if you want to believe that old state U is as pure as the driven snow you will have a great deal of company


But of course that's not what you said. You didn't say everyone "cuts corners". You said the 20 years of ficticious courses involving thousands of students that happened at UNC is SOP at many schools.

I think another poster here answered that well:

purduefanatic wrote:

It most certainly is NOT SOP to have completely fictitious classes at a school of higher education. That goes a little above & beyond the scope of cheating in an actual class, on an actual paper or test, etc.


linkster



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: 10/23/14 5:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
This is a thread about the scandal at UNC and the report issued yesterday.

You drag up some completely unrelated incident that happened 20 years ago at Notre Dame.

Sure I could drag in all the suspensions UConn has received for failing to educate its athletes and all of Calhoun's cheating that got UConn on suspension, or all the rumors of why Tenn won't play UConn in WCBB any more, but that's not relevant to this topic at all and I don't do that.

You're just trolling. Don't even try to defend it. Take it to your troll board. I'm done.


So where are YOUR links? Or is it only others who need to post them?

I posted a comment about ND only to make my point that even highly rated schools like ND are dirty. I have no illusions about UConn. I attended when their athletics were very spotty and yet many athletes were "assisted" through their academics. Most of my posts were reponses to your jingoistic defense of ND. I'm not the one in denial.


beknighted



Joined: 11 Nov 2004
Posts: 11050
Location: Lost in D.C.


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PostPosted: 10/23/14 9:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's worth noting that the NY Times story today features an email exchange involving the grade for an unnamed WCBB player and making sure she passed the course so she'd remain eligible. (All she needed was a D, apparently, which was what she got.)


Oldfandepot2



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 996
Location: Northeast


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PostPosted: 10/23/14 9:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Andy Borowitz, New Yorker writer satirical take on the UNC scandal:

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/u-n-c-boosters-outraged-athletes-took-real-classes?int-cid=mod-latest?utm_source%3Dtny&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=borowitz&mbid=nl_Borowitz+(127)&CUST_ID=24807630&spMailingID=7228398&spUserID=MjkxNzc4MTQwMzES1&spJobID=542568397&spReportId=NTQyNTY4Mzk3S0

Hilarious.



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summertime blues



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: 10/23/14 9:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Most schools that have big-time athletics programs have ways to keep their big-time athletes in school. Some of the methods they use are basically reasonable, others could be called sketchy, some are pretty dirty, and others are downright fraudulent. I've not seen anything quite like this business at UNC, though. However, my dad taught at several schools with big-time athletics programs (Nebraska, UW-Madison, Syracuse,Tennessee), and was also on the athletics board at UT, so I am in a position to know something about it. He personally was a man with very high standards and refused to "cut deals" for any athletes other than to give make-up work or advance work for those going to away games, expecting players to earn their grades just like any other student. But some departments in some schools are different and he knew that and so do I...and so do others. It's no secret that players are recruited who are not academically qualified to be in college. These kids have been passed along through school because they are good at some sport, whether they can actually do the classwork or not. I have a friend in West Virginia who was fired from her teaching job because she refused to change a *middle school* football player's grade; that's just one example. (And we won't talk about the behavior they get away with, because that's a separate issue.) The point is that this kind of thing surfaces every few years. The last really egregious one I remember was at Creighton and involved several basketball players, at least one of whom, it was revealed, could not even read, and ended up back in his home town of Chicago at Marva Collins' West Side Prep, going to class with a bunch of second graders because he so desperately wanted to redeem himself. However, UNC seems to have really outdone everybody with this particular program.

I have to admit I'm a bit surprised that any female athletes are involved at all. Usually women's sports aren't a big enough economic deal to make it necessary to recruit academically subpar women athletes. Most women athletes know that sports is a way to a free education, rather than the other way round. Certainly at Tennessee academics are very much emphasized on the women's side.



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beknighted



Joined: 11 Nov 2004
Posts: 11050
Location: Lost in D.C.


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PostPosted: 10/23/14 10:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Athletes do seem to have a nose for the classes where they can get good grades without much effort - presumably at most schools there's something like a list - and sometimes the popular classes for athletes can be pretty surprising. I remember being stunned at how many athletes there were in my intermediate macroeconomics class at Rutgers, particularly given that the RU economics department has a pretty good reputation. (Athletes were around 1/3 of my 30-person section, including at least one men's basketball player.) IIRC, though, our grade was based extremely heavily on a semester-end paper, which undoubtedly explained a lot.


Dennis1361



Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 248



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PostPosted: 10/23/14 10:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Art

You should go to college and learn how to read and pay attention to those courses that teach one how to not take everything literally. Also learn to quote what a person say correctly

FYI Ti translate I used SOP to indicate that most schools do in fact "cut corners" or cheat or give special consideration to athletes. In short the UNC scandal is no real surprise.

General question: How man people on this board had any multiple choice test in college?


FS02



Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 9699
Location: Husky (west coast) Country


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PostPosted: 10/24/14 12:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Those "easy A" classes are not just for jocks. I was a computer science major and I remember it being my strategy that when I had a couple upper-division CS courses that were going to have me in the lab coding for 30-40 hours a week, I'd take something easy to go with it--just so the workload would not be more than I could handle.

It paid off, and "music appreciation" classes were not a waste of time either; I still learned stuff, it was still enriching, just not a ton of homework.

So I think there's a big difference between that sort of thing an out-and-out fraud, or cheating, or double standards which are just dishonest and indirectly punish everyone who does it the right way.



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loneycafe



Joined: 17 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: 10/24/14 7:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

beknighted wrote:
It's worth noting that the NY Times story today features an email exchange involving the grade for an unnamed WCBB player and making sure she passed the course so she'd remain eligible. (All she needed was a D, apparently, which was what she got.)


One of the charts presented as part of the report shows that about 6 percent of the student-athletes who were enrolled in the no-show classes were members of the WBB team.

Here's more on that email exchange, btw: http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/10/22/4255051_wainstein-report-says-jan-boxill.html?rh=1


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 10/24/14 9:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

loneycafe wrote:
beknighted wrote:
It's worth noting that the NY Times story today features an email exchange involving the grade for an unnamed WCBB player and making sure she passed the course so she'd remain eligible. (All she needed was a D, apparently, which was what she got.)


One of the charts presented as part of the report shows that about 6 percent of the student-athletes who were enrolled in the no-show classes were members of the WBB team.

Here's more on that email exchange, btw: http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/10/22/4255051_wainstein-report-says-jan-boxill.html?rh=1


The report, like that newspaper account, says that the D was given to a student who had finished playing who needed to pass that last course to graduate.

It didn't boost the team's fortune, but what does that say about the value of UNC degree when they are handing one out to a student based on a paper that they know was "recycled" from another course and had nothing to do with the course for which the credits - and hence the degree - were being awarded?

This isn't students cheating from other students or even tutors crossing the line and writing papers. This is tenured faculty and department chairs and senior administrators engaging in large scale academic fraud.


StevenHW



Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 10979
Location: Sacramento, California


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PostPosted: 10/24/14 12:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/11745036/north-carolina-investigation-says-advisers-pushed-sham-classes


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 10/24/14 1:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

StevenHW wrote:
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/11745036/north-carolina-investigation-says-advisers-pushed-sham-classes


Did the ESPN author not bother to read the report? The statement "but does not directly implicate coaches or athletic administrators in the scheme." is plainly wrong.

It directly implicates Jane Boxill, a faculty member and counselor for the UNC women’s basketball program, saying that she steered players into sham classes and fixed grades for them.

And it directly implicates the football academic support staff and coaches right down to including powerpoint slides where the staff advised the coaches of how they had been keeping up grades for players by getting them into fake classes, and how they were going to deal with Crowder's pending retirement.

The only saving grace for UNC is that the investigators do not seem to have found any direct evidence of involvement on the part of the sacred men's basketball program (although plenty of MBB players were beneficiaries of the fake courses). Don't see how anyone could read the report and make that statement about football and WBB though. Indeed, WBB may have the most direct link. (Although there's no evidence that Hatchell herself was involved, apparently.)


Beemer



Joined: 19 Jul 2014
Posts: 483
Location: Connecticut


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PostPosted: 10/24/14 2:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

[quote="linkster"]UNC Chancellor Carol Folt called the information "shocking" and "sobering."
Quote:








Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


I just bet he did /sarcasm Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes



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Beemer



Joined: 19 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 10/24/14 2:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Oldfandepot2 wrote:
Andy Borowitz, New Yorker writer satirical take on the UNC scandal:

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/u-n-c-boosters-outraged-athletes-took-real-classes?int-cid=mod-latest?utm_source%3Dtny&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=borowitz&mbid=nl_Borowitz+(127)&CUST_ID=24807630&spMailingID=7228398&spUserID=MjkxNzc4MTQwMzES1&spJobID=542568397&spReportId=NTQyNTY4Mzk3S0

Hilarious.


Great link. Love the snark Very Happy Laughing



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Ladyvol777



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 10/24/14 7:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There is a Santa Claus and Easter Bunny !!!!!!!!


loneycafe



Joined: 17 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: 10/24/14 10:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
StevenHW wrote:
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/11745036/north-carolina-investigation-says-advisers-pushed-sham-classes


Did the ESPN author not bother to read the report? The statement "but does not directly implicate coaches or athletic administrators in the scheme." is plainly wrong.

It directly implicates Jane Boxill, a faculty member and counselor for the UNC women’s basketball program, saying that she steered players into sham classes and fixed grades for them.

And it directly implicates the football academic support staff and coaches right down to including powerpoint slides where the staff advised the coaches of how they had been keeping up grades for players by getting them into fake classes, and how they were going to deal with Crowder's pending retirement.

The only saving grace for UNC is that the investigators do not seem to have found any direct evidence of involvement on the part of the sacred men's basketball program (although plenty of MBB players were beneficiaries of the fake courses). Don't see how anyone could read the report and make that statement about football and WBB though. Indeed, WBB may have the most direct link. (Although there's no evidence that Hatchell herself was involved, apparently.)


The emails released as part of the supplementary package seem to show that Wayne Walden, academic counselor for MBB from 2003-09, was directly involved. The News & Observer began looking at this angle today based on Wainstein's comments about Walden (though it doesn't seem the reporters have had quite the time to go through the 900 pages of emails yet): http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/10/24/4261947_wainstein-roy-williams-lacked.html?sp=/99/100/&rh=1

Baseball and women's soccer are the other two sports that look directly involved based on the emails (and baseball based on the main Wainstein report): http://www.collegebaseballdaily.com/2014/10/23/north-carolinas-mike-fox-knew-about-paper-classes/

There's apparently more to come based on the information the most reliable poster on Pack Pride on this topic posted today. Manilishi has been right on everything and was the one to first reveal the name of the person who rented the vehicles (Fats Thomas) as part of the Wheels for Heels program (which led to PJ Hairston losing his eligibility).

Quote:
manalishi wrote: -- Most media organizations had stories ready and up within a few hours of the release of the report on Wednesday, and definitely by the next day. A couple in particular, however, are taking a bit more time. They are coming.

-- Two of the people who recently lost their jobs are not happy at all, and have been threatening to fight back. Of course, Boyer's family threatened to fight back, as well, and you saw how that has turned out thus far -- so there are never any guarantees. Still, if either of those two feel they can safely do so, then the he-said, she-said release of accusations could be fruitful.

-- Some are saying that Wainstein went light, that he semi-whitewashed, etc.
Could the report have been more pointed and damning? Of course.
But could it have entirely been fluff? Absolutely... and at one time that was a definite possibility.

However, a few key events happened back in mid-June that assured that Wainstein would be laying out all of the attached "supplementary" documentation that you see in the report, and unc has no one to blame but themselves.
Remember that tidbit from a few months ago?...
Some higher-ups tried to use their influence and arrogance to bully and control something that is used to working/roaming on its own terms, so to speak... and that didn't go so well.

-- "Rumor" is the cogs continue to turn, on several fronts. Just relax and enjoy the ride. What's the rush?
[/quote]


beknighted



Joined: 11 Nov 2004
Posts: 11050
Location: Lost in D.C.


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PostPosted: 10/26/14 11:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
loneycafe wrote:
beknighted wrote:
It's worth noting that the NY Times story today features an email exchange involving the grade for an unnamed WCBB player and making sure she passed the course so she'd remain eligible. (All she needed was a D, apparently, which was what she got.)


One of the charts presented as part of the report shows that about 6 percent of the student-athletes who were enrolled in the no-show classes were members of the WBB team.

Here's more on that email exchange, btw: http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/10/22/4255051_wainstein-report-says-jan-boxill.html?rh=1


The report, like that newspaper account, says that the D was given to a student who had finished playing who needed to pass that last course to graduate.

It didn't boost the team's fortune, but what does that say about the value of UNC degree when they are handing one out to a student based on a paper that they know was "recycled" from another course and had nothing to do with the course for which the credits - and hence the degree - were being awarded?

This isn't students cheating from other students or even tutors crossing the line and writing papers. This is tenured faculty and department chairs and senior administrators engaging in large scale academic fraud.


The NCAA keeps track of academic progress and penalizes schools that don't meet those standards (including graduation), so there actually is a potential impact on the team from getting someone those last 3 credits to graduate.

Your main point, though, is what's particularly shameful about this.


Nixtreefan



Joined: 14 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: 10/26/14 5:44 pm    ::: Fuuuunny Reply Reply with quote

StevenHW wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
It doesn't diminish the scandal, but I truly am not convinced this UNC mess was directed at athletes. Somewhat less than half of the 3100 students involved were reportedly athletes, with about half of that number being football players. Nothing I have read indicates that the former head of the African and Afro-American Studies Dept was motivated in creating these phony classes by a desire to help athletes. Rather he appears, from what I've read, to have been motivated by a desire to assist a certain segment of the school's student population. Undoubtedly the athletic department subsequently took advantage of the situation and steered struggling players to these courses, but the academic fraud apparently would have occurred regardless of athlete involvement (although it might well have continued undetected by the outside world without the athlete involvement which seems to be the only reason anyone cared enough to put a stop to it).



And it is totally unfounded to assert that this is "SOP" at other schools. Certainly every school has some notoriously easy courses (se e.g. Heisman Trophy winner Matt Leinart who took one course - Ballroom Dancing - at USC in order to remain eligible for one more football season), and those are often heavily populated by jocks, but these courses and grades at UNC were not simply easier than most, they were completely ficticious, and that certainly does not occur everywhere.


But that Ballroom Dancing class might come in handy for Leinart in case he becomes a future contestant on Dancing With The Stars! Razz


Laughing Laughing Laughing


Durantula



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PostPosted: 02/24/15 7:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WBB players join in on the lawsuit. I mean if you willingly look these sham classes to boost your GPA I don't have much sympathy. I know they'll say they were pushed into these classes but a lot of college kids want the easy A's and now all these years later its a problem? Don't take all these sham classes and rob yourself of an education.

@JonSolomonCBS
Ex-UNC women's BB players Kenya McBee & Leah Metcalf and ex-FB player James Arnold join Michael McAdoo fraud-class lawsuit vs. UNC.

Kenya McBee in suit: UNC academic counselor Jan Boxill & coaches told her journalism classes conflicted with team practices.

Ex-UNC BB player Kenya McBee claims she was forced to African-American Studies/communication double major after told she could do journalism


Happycappie25



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 4174
Location: QUEENS!!!!


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PostPosted: 02/24/15 9:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

if that is true it looks really bad for Hatchell and co...steering players to a sham class...eek


lvf08



Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: 05/22/15 12:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

UNC receives notice of allegations
Quote:
Chancellor Carol L. Folt and AD Bubba Cunningham released this statement:

"We take these allegations very seriously, and we will carefully evaluate them to respond within the NCAA's 90-day deadline. The University will publicly release the NCAA's notice as soon as possible. The notice is lengthy and must be prepared for public dissemination to ensure we protect privacy rights as required by federal and state law. When that review for redactions is complete, the University will post the notice on the Carolina Commitment website and notify the news media.


http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25192884/unc-receives-notice-of-allegations


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