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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15750 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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Posted: 10/13/14 11:49 pm ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
pilight wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
They're amateur. The players don't get paid for playing. That's it. |
So Gurley should not have been suspended. Selling his autograph is not the same as being paid to play. He's just as much an amateur as he was before.
I do not understand why amateurism is so highly valued by fans. |
He's being paid by reason of his athletic endeavors. That's a violation of amateurism rules in every sport. It is being paid to play. Always has been. Not even a close call. |
Only in your self-created universe is THAT "being paid to play". It is NOT, not in any court of law. It *may* be considered compensation for one's athletic reputation. And it (obviously) violated rules--rules that are NOT created or enforced for the benefit of the athlete.
_________________ Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 10/14/14 12:31 am ::: |
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Howee wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
pilight wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
They're amateur. The players don't get paid for playing. That's it. |
So Gurley should not have been suspended. Selling his autograph is not the same as being paid to play. He's just as much an amateur as he was before.
I do not understand why amateurism is so highly valued by fans. |
He's being paid by reason of his athletic endeavors. That's a violation of amateurism rules in every sport. It is being paid to play. Always has been. Not even a close call. |
Only in your self-created universe is THAT "being paid to play". It is NOT, not in any court of law. It *may* be considered compensation for one's athletic reputation. And it (obviously) violated rules--rules that are NOT created or enforced for the benefit of the athlete. |
It is everywherw, whether you like it or not. Here as a non-NCAA example, is Rule 6-2 of the US Golf Association rules:
"An amateur golfer of golf skill or reputation must not use that skill or reputation to obtain payment, compensation, personal benefit or any financial gain, directly or indirectly, for (i) promoting, advertising or selling anything, or (ii) allowing his name or likeness to be used by a third party for the promotion, advertisement or sale of anything. "
That's a pretty universal amateurism rule. It's payment for your play. It's not complicated.
I notice neither you nor anyone else has even tried to answer the questions I posed. Having trouble with that I guess.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66971 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 10/14/14 5:43 am ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
If amateurism doesn't matter to you, then stick to the pros. Don't ruin it for everyone else to whom it does matter. |
Why does amateurism matter to you?
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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Oldfandepot2
Joined: 05 Jul 2013 Posts: 996 Location: Northeast
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scfastpitch
Joined: 21 Dec 2009 Posts: 616
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Posted: 10/14/14 7:04 am ::: |
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Wow ! That's really pathetic .
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7860 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 10/14/14 9:51 am ::: |
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This whole thing was another move by Heartless Dave. Firing JJ Clark was his doing. JJ had done a great job at Tennessee but Dave doesn't like spending money on anything but football, and as little as he can get by with on that.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Oldfandepot2
Joined: 05 Jul 2013 Posts: 996 Location: Northeast
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Posted: 10/14/14 10:13 am ::: |
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The University of Tennessee just announced this AM that the three freshman will be allowed to retain their scholarships and transfer without interference if they so choose.
Let's see, barn door closed. Now where are those horses!?
_________________ Cave Canem!
We must listen to each other no matter how much it hurts. Bishop Desmond Tutu.
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scfastpitch
Joined: 21 Dec 2009 Posts: 616
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Posted: 10/14/14 11:35 am ::: |
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Oldfandepot2 wrote: |
The University of Tennessee just announced this AM that the three freshman will be allowed to retain their scholarships and transfer without interference if they so choose.
Let's see, barn door closed. Now where are those horses!? |
Well , this doesn't change the SEC requirement that they sit out a year if they transfer to an SEC school (where some of them had other offers) . And it doesn't make scholarship money available at other schools at mid-year . They will probably have to walk on somewhere for at least one semester . They are basically being made to pay for a coach's mistake .
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 10/14/14 1:25 pm ::: |
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Oldfandepot2 wrote: |
The University of Tennessee just announced this AM that the three freshman will be allowed to retain their scholarships and transfer without interference if they so choose.
Let's see, barn door closed. Now where are those horses!? |
Actually the above-linked article dated several days ago says "Through UT spokesman Jimmy Stanton, Alford-Sullivan and Hart declined multiple interview requests for this story. Stanton said UT placed no transfer restrictions on the women and will honor the athletes’ scholarships through the end of the 2015 spring semester." so that appears always to have been what they were doing, not something they added because of publicity.
That's not excusing how they handled this at all, but they were keeping their scholarships for the year.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 10/14/14 1:27 pm ::: |
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scfastpitch wrote: |
Well , this doesn't change the SEC requirement that they sit out a year if they transfer to an SEC school (where some of them had other offers) . And it doesn't make scholarship money available at other schools at mid-year . They will probably have to walk on somewhere for at least one semester . They are basically being made to pay for a coach's mistake . |
Are you sure that SEC rule applies if their scholarship is not renewed? And they have a scholarship for the full academic year at Tenn.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 10/14/14 1:29 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
If amateurism doesn't matter to you, then stick to the pros. Don't ruin it for everyone else to whom it does matter. |
Why does amateurism matter to you? |
I'm not sure what my personal preferences have to do with the discussion, but after someone gives a meaningful response to the questions I posed above, I'll explain why.
I'm not holding my breath.
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Oldfandepot2
Joined: 05 Jul 2013 Posts: 996 Location: Northeast
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Posted: 10/14/14 2:31 pm ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
scfastpitch wrote: |
Well , this doesn't change the SEC requirement that they sit out a year if they transfer to an SEC school (where some of them had other offers) . And it doesn't make scholarship money available at other schools at mid-year . They will probably have to walk on somewhere for at least one semester . They are basically being made to pay for a coach's mistake . |
Are you sure that SEC rule applies if their scholarship is not renewed? And they have a scholarship for the full academic year at Tenn. |
Should they accept the scholarship will this mean they won't be able to play for another school for a year? Seems like a potential lose, lose situation, accept and not be allow to play, don't accept and lose financially. Is this the senario?
_________________ Cave Canem!
We must listen to each other no matter how much it hurts. Bishop Desmond Tutu.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 10/14/14 3:15 pm ::: |
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Oldfandepot2 wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
scfastpitch wrote: |
Well , this doesn't change the SEC requirement that they sit out a year if they transfer to an SEC school (where some of them had other offers) . And it doesn't make scholarship money available at other schools at mid-year . They will probably have to walk on somewhere for at least one semester . They are basically being made to pay for a coach's mistake . |
Are you sure that SEC rule applies if their scholarship is not renewed? And they have a scholarship for the full academic year at Tenn. |
Should they accept the scholarship will this mean they won't be able to play for another school for a year? Seems like a potential lose, lose situation, accept and not be allow to play, don't accept and lose financially. Is this the senario? |
It's the middle of October. If that is a problem I assume they've already crossed that bridge. Don't know why they couldn't transfer at the end of the semester though. Or they can wait until next June.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 14111
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Posted: 10/14/14 9:16 pm ::: |
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Oldfandepot2 wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
scfastpitch wrote: |
Well , this doesn't change the SEC requirement that they sit out a year if they transfer to an SEC school (where some of them had other offers) . And it doesn't make scholarship money available at other schools at mid-year . They will probably have to walk on somewhere for at least one semester . They are basically being made to pay for a coach's mistake . |
Are you sure that SEC rule applies if their scholarship is not renewed? And they have a scholarship for the full academic year at Tenn. |
Should they accept the scholarship will this mean they won't be able to play for another school for a year? Seems like a potential lose, lose situation, accept and not be allow to play, don't accept and lose financially. Is this the senario? |
What do you mean by should they accept the scholarship. Classes began on August 20, they have already accepted and using their scholarships.
As for what will happen to the student athletes if the decide to transfer, I don't know how things work in every sport, but many athletes in different sports transfer and don't sit out a year. I don't know if Track and Field is one of those sports. And of course exceptions are made all the time, given these student athletes are not transferring by choice I would think an exception would be made for them as well.
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