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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63869
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Posted: 10/02/14 11:37 am ::: Ohio State 2014-2015 |
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Ohio State women's basketball: Raven Ferguson dismissed from team
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Ferguson, an Africentric graduate, had been expected to be a key player for the Buckeyes this season. She averaged 10.8 points a game last season.
"I've enjoyed having the opportunity to coach Raven this past year, McGuff said. And it's unfortunate that we're at this point, but due to a violation of team rules she can no longer be a part of our program. I wish her nothing but success as she moves forward as a basketball player and as a person." |
http://buckeyextra.dispatch.com/content/stories/2014/10/02/1002-ohio-state-womens-basketball.html
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
Last edited by Shades on 10/03/14 4:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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#Occasionalwnbafan
Joined: 01 Mar 2012 Posts: 1380
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Posted: 10/02/14 1:39 pm ::: |
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making room for Kelsey Mitchell to start perhaps? |
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buckeyewoman
Joined: 19 Feb 2009 Posts: 61 Location: Columbus OH
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Posted: 10/02/14 2:24 pm ::: |
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Raven was not a point guard. She was our only senior. Really dumb to get yourself thrown off a team in your senior year.
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AJMMs
Joined: 09 May 2005 Posts: 139
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Posted: 10/02/14 6:23 pm ::: |
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buckeyewoman wrote: |
Raven was not a point guard. She was our only senior. Really dumb to get yourself thrown off a team in your senior year. |
Hmmmm how about USC's leading scorer Ariyah Crook? Still wondering how that all went down and...????
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mzonefan
Joined: 15 Oct 2005 Posts: 4878 Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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Posted: 10/02/14 7:06 pm ::: |
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buckeyewoman wrote: |
Raven was not a point guard. She was our only senior. Really dumb to get yourself thrown off a team in your senior year. |
And Kiana Johnson at Michigan State (although she might have been gone the end of her junior year).
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32341
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Posted: 10/03/14 12:49 am ::: |
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buckeyewoman wrote: |
Raven was not a point guard. She was our only senior. Really dumb to get yourself thrown off a team in your senior year. |
so true. I think there is self delusion that 'I am too important for anything bad to happen to me' at work. sad. Raven was a good player.
_________________ For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
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NoDakSt
Joined: 26 Oct 2005 Posts: 4929
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Posted: 10/03/14 7:39 am ::: |
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Tough for her but less so for the team. Don't doubt that the current lineup can move on with out her and be successful.
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Fighting Artichoke
Joined: 12 Dec 2012 Posts: 4071
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Posted: 10/03/14 8:53 am ::: |
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NoDakSt wrote: |
Tough for her but less so for the team. Don't doubt that the current lineup can move on with out her and be successful. |
I agree. This may be McGuff demonstrating that team comes first and no one is above reproach. Of course it's a lot easier to do this when you have a bunch of talented underclassmen that you want to develop. tOSU wasn't supposed to be too good this year anyway, but next year (and moving forward) they should start to make some serious noise in the B1G.
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Joe Foss
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 Posts: 4066
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Posted: 10/03/14 11:45 am ::: |
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Do we know what the rule violation was? That term covers a lot of territory, and if McGuff is willing to smear Ferguson by saying she violated a team rule, he should be willing to say what it was she did.
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buckeyewoman
Joined: 19 Feb 2009 Posts: 61 Location: Columbus OH
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Posted: 10/03/14 2:11 pm ::: |
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Nothing in any of the press releases re nature of the violation but articles do mention that Raven was suspended 3 games last year for same violation. Scholarship was pulled. My guess is not attending class but that is purely a guess.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011 Posts: 2819 Location: Indiana
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Posted: 10/03/14 2:40 pm ::: |
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Joe Foss wrote: |
Do we know what the rule violation was? That term covers a lot of territory, and if McGuff is willing to smear Ferguson by saying she violated a team rule, he should be willing to say what it was she did. |
How is that smearing Ferguson? She and the team know what she did and that is all that matters. We don't need to know.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11186
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Posted: 10/03/14 3:20 pm ::: |
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The generic "rules violation" is pretty standard, even at the pro level.
There's confidentiality involved on both sides.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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LegoMyEggo
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 Posts: 284
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Posted: 10/03/14 3:53 pm ::: |
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The rules violation suggests that she violated some kind of university policy that demanded dismissal. McGuff is a wily guy. If he could've kept her, I'm guessing he would've done so.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7861 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 10/03/14 5:52 pm ::: |
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Joe Foss wrote: |
Do we know what the rule violation was? That term covers a lot of territory, and if McGuff is willing to smear Ferguson by saying she violated a team rule, he should be willing to say what it was she did. |
"Smear"? Really? How is that smearing? It's a statement of fact. It's the standard announcement anywhere and there is probably confidentiality involved. I can't think of any coach, anywhere, that's ever come out and said what the "violation of team policy" (or rules) was. Now if a player gets arrested for something and gets thrown off the team, that's usually common knowledge and that's a different thing because that's been in the media. I know one violation of team rules that would get someone thrown off the team at Tennessee was always repeatedly skipping class. Don't know how that plays at other schools.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Joe Foss
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 Posts: 4066
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Posted: 10/04/14 10:53 am ::: |
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Of course it's a smear to say that a player was dismissed because she broke team rules. It's the same thing as a corporation saying that an employee was fired because she violated company policy. It is a statement that the student or employee did something wrong. If some prefer the term "cast aspersions", that fits too.
Ohio State forfeited any right it had to hide behind the "confidentiality" excuse when it announced Ferguson's dismissal and blamed it on her. If they really wanted to keep it confidential, they could have simply announced that she was no longer with the team, and make no further comment. That would leave it open as to whether she left of her own accord or not. Once the institution adds ..."and it's her own fault", they shouldn't be allowed to say "and we're going to keep it a big secret why".
"Confidentiality" is a convenient shield for powerful coaches and administrations, who use it when they want to and ignore it when they don't. The Leticia Romero and Daisha Simmons cases are not isolated examples, just publicized ones. I don't see why we should be presuming that it was Ferguson's fault just because McGuff says it is. He's done a pretty thorough house cleaning of the players he inherited, and it seems just as reasonable to assume that this is a continuation of that process.
So having opened the can of worms, Ohio State, let's see it all. What was the violation? How does it compare to how similar violations were treated on other Ohio State athletic teams, including football? How does it compare to how other institutions treat similar violations? Don't publicly funded institutions have an obligation to show the public that their student-athletes are fairly treated despite the overwhelming disparity of power between players and coaches?
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7861 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 10/04/14 11:39 am ::: |
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Joe Foss wrote: |
Of course it's a smear to say that a player was dismissed because she broke team rules. It's the same thing as a corporation saying that an employee was fired because she violated company policy. It is a statement that the student or employee did something wrong. If some prefer the term "cast aspersions", that fits too.
Ohio State forfeited any right it had to hide behind the "confidentiality" excuse when it announced Ferguson's dismissal and blamed it on her. If they really wanted to keep it confidential, they could have simply announced that she was no longer with the team, and make no further comment. That would leave it open as to whether she left of her own accord or not. Once the institution adds ..."and it's her own fault", they shouldn't be allowed to say "and we're going to keep it a big secret why".
"Confidentiality" is a convenient shield for powerful coaches and administrations, who use it when they want to and ignore it when they don't. The Leticia Romero and Daisha Simmons cases are not isolated examples, just publicized ones. I don't see why we should be presuming that it was Ferguson's fault just because McGuff says it is. He's done a pretty thorough house cleaning of the players he inherited, and it seems just as reasonable to assume that this is a continuation of that process.
So having opened the can of worms, Ohio State, let's see it all. What was the violation? How does it compare to how similar violations were treated on other Ohio State athletic teams, including football? How does it compare to how other institutions treat similar violations? Don't publicly funded institutions have an obligation to show the public that their student-athletes are fairly treated despite the overwhelming disparity of power between players and coaches? |
Really, Joe? Are you the kind that wants everyone's dirty laundry hung out for the world to see? Here's a clue.....Teams have rules/policies, and some are pretty hard and fast. Dismissal for "violation of team policy" is almost never for a first offense. There are generally repeated warnings to the player, and if that player continues to violate whatever policy it is, s/he *will* be dismissed and it *is* his/her fault. The only time I have EVER seen a dismissal be a first offense type thing is in the event of a felony arrest, in which case it's all over the media anyway.
You sound like you have a personal stake in this particular case. What's your problem?
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Joe Foss
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 Posts: 4066
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Posted: 10/04/14 12:57 pm ::: |
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Don't worry, I don't have a dog in this hunt. Wouldn't know either Ferguson or McGuff if I saw them on the street. And as for dirty laundry, is there any? Or is the "violation of team rules" nothing at all in this case? Some may be willing to defer to the judgment of the coach when it comes to getting rid of players, but I am not. I think an explanation is needed.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 14120
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Posted: 10/04/14 1:19 pm ::: |
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Joe Foss wrote: |
Don't worry, I don't have a dog in this hunt. Wouldn't know either Ferguson or McGuff if I saw them on the street. And as for dirty laundry, is there any? Or is the "violation of team rules" nothing at all in this case? Some may be willing to defer to the judgment of the coach when it comes to getting rid of players, but I am not. I think an explanation is needed. |
An explanation is needed for the player, the administration, staff, team, and other members that are involved like the players family, not the public, people who have no say in or need to know about the inter-workings of the team.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7861 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 10/05/14 11:02 am ::: |
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GEF34 wrote: |
Joe Foss wrote: |
Don't worry, I don't have a dog in this hunt. Wouldn't know either Ferguson or McGuff if I saw them on the street. And as for dirty laundry, is there any? Or is the "violation of team rules" nothing at all in this case? Some may be willing to defer to the judgment of the coach when it comes to getting rid of players, but I am not. I think an explanation is needed. |
An explanation is needed for the player, the administration, staff, team, and other members that are involved like the players family, not the public, people who have no say in or need to know about the inter-workings of the team. |
And I'm sure those who NEEDED to know got the explanation. The player knows the reason she was dismissed and I'm quite sure her family does too. So will the staff and team. That's how it works. The administration is notified. It is absolutely NOT the business of the public at large and the reasons are not published, in part not to embarrass the player. Do you want all your business on the street, Joe Foss? Really?
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32341
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Posted: 10/06/14 2:22 pm ::: |
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If Ferguson wants it to be aired publicly, she can do it. It's like a medical record - the doctor/hospital won't release it, but if the patient wants to, he/she can. It's actually much more professional that way.
_________________ For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
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Joe Foss
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 Posts: 4066
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Posted: 10/06/14 8:43 pm ::: |
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I don't see that the university either treated Ferguson's situation confidentially or tried to avoid embarrassing her. To the contrary, the university issued a press release, followed it up with a press conference, and said, in effect: "Raven's been a bad girl. She broke the rules. In fact, she's been a bad, bad girl because she broke the rules twice. We cut her a break the first time, but she just didn't learn her lesson, so now we're going to really whack her. Too bad, but it's all her fault."
Take a look at the first few comments in this thread if you don't think the university's actions had the effect of publicly humiliating Ferguson. Posters call her "really dumb" and accuse her of "self-delusion". It is implied that her departure will be good for the team as a whole. Which is why I posted my original question in this thread, asking if we know what the claimed rules violation was. We still don't know.
If you want, you can assume it's all her fault, and that she got what she deserved. But even if she violated some substantial rule, how can the university justify publicly embarrassing Ferguson? And how can anyone seriously think the university is interested in protecting her privacy or confidentiality? They've already shredded all but the barest fig leaf of those. Having gone so far, they may as well be mandated to disclose the rest. At least then we can see whether her dismissal is based on substance, or on the same combination of power and pettiness that has been so recently displayed at Kansas State and Alabama.
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dfineguy
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 Posts: 201 Location: Bay Area Califonia
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Posted: 10/07/14 1:59 am ::: |
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Aren't you kind of doing the same to The U when you accuse them of being like K-State and Alabama? If she really felt wronged by McGuff and The U's AD, then surely she could speak up herself. The situations are not like other two schools you mentioned and I don't see McGuff getting rid of one of his better player's with a bright year ahead to do what? Some teams have contracts that specify certain prohibitions. McGuff is NOT Foster.
_________________ From the Desk of the Cat in the Hat
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7861 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 10/07/14 11:03 am ::: |
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Oh, fuhgawdsake, Joe, get over it already! As several have said, Raven is a big girl and if she wants the reasons known, she can talk about it. So far she hasn't. She knew the rules, she chose to disobey one or more, and likely not once but several times as is the usual case, and she suffered the consequences. That's the story. It's happened to other players in other places, most recently at LA Tech and USC. It has nothing to do with the situations at KSU and Alabama. If you don't have a personal stake in the matter, you need to let it go and move on. What's done is done. Ms. Ferguson is not on the team and they will go on and play without her. End of story.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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bucks4now
Joined: 28 Feb 2006 Posts: 723
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Posted: 10/07/14 11:25 am ::: |
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I don't see the problem Joe. She broke a team rule. Is that the coaches fault? The university's fault? Believe me if there was something fishy in this ordeal, there would be outcry from the people around the program.
Look back to the Beth Burns era. She dismissed a player, Mixu.Moua. Burns said it was for breaking team rules. The fans were pissed. Andy Geiger got involved and she was reinstated. Burns was later fired the day after the end of the season.
Raven smeared her own name by breaking the rules. The press release simply stated a fact.
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ripleydc
Joined: 17 Nov 2004 Posts: 4778 Location: Washington, DC
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