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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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 Posted: 06/10/14 10:16 am ::: |
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| LegoMyEggo wrote: |
| The cost of using United Center for the event would be huge. Can't blame them for not wanting to flush $ down the toilet. Not to mention the problem that the United Center not only has its usual tenants schedules to plan for, but also could make more money off of things like Ice Capades or Disney on Ice. |
Scheduling is a completely phony issue. It just requires planning, that's all. MSG is busier than the United Center and it doesn't seem to have any big problem with the BE men's tournament or the NIT. As I said, they're just too cheap to have it in a good downtown arena. Then they not only whine when attendance stinks but use that bad attendance as an excuse not to pay for a good location.
Last edited by ArtBest23 on 06/10/14 11:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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Location: Indiana
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| Posted: 06/10/14 10:33 am ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
Scheduling is a completely phony issue. It just requires planning, that's all. MSG is busier than the United Center and it doesn't seem to have any big problem with the BE men's tournament or the NIT. As I said, they're just too cheap to have it in a good downtown arena. Then they not only whine when attendance stinks but use that bad attendance as an excuse not to pay for a good location. |
LOL...wow. When did the Big Ten piss in your cheerios? The Big Ten has toyed with the idea of the United Center but cost is a huge factor, a little for the Big Ten but a LOT for the fans. The cost of hotel rooms, food, etc in downtown Chicago vs downtown Indy or the western 'burbs of Chicago is very different.
As far as BE & Madison Square Garden, we are talking about events that bring in lots of fans/money AND have been around for quite a while. The NBA knows in advance that those events will be held and thus make sure to schedule the Knicks accordingly.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 06/10/14 11:53 am ::: |
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Wow. The reservoir of lame excuses is seemingly endless. Now it's that all those poor grads and fans of Ohio St, Penn St., Mich and Wisconsin can't afford a hotel room in Chicago. Waaaaaaaaaa.
The BE men's tournament is a perfect example. If they had wanted to fail, they could have stuck it at the Nassau Colleseum, or the Meadowlands, or Hartford or Providence. It certainly would have been MUCH cheaper both for the organizers and the fans, and much easier to schedule. But then, far fewer fans would have bothered to go. Instead they made it an event, put it in the most important arena in the country (and the one with the most expensive hotel rooms in the country, by far), and it became the biggest conference tournament in the country and an annual institution.
But the Big 10 doesn't want to pay the money so they stick the thing in a the middle of nowhere in Hoffman Estates Ill where they can share it with the Lingerie Football League and the Yanni World Tour. Indeed, in an arena that failed within five years of construction for the very reason that it was convenient to nothing.
I note that the B10 MEN'S tournament is going to be held at the United Center and in equally expensive downtown DC at the Verizon Center. So B10 men's fans can afford a hotel in Chicago or DC, but the women's fan's can't? They can schedule a men's tournament a couple years in advance at the United Center or Verizon Center, but scheduling is impossible for a women's tournament? Got any other phony excuses?
Isn't the Big 10 the conference that's always bragging about how they're swimming in cash? The cost of putting it in a real arena in a real city is a pittance. They're not alone, though. The SEC plays the women's tournament at the Gwinnet Center 20 miles outside of Atlanta instead of in the downtown Philips Arena or the Georgia Dome where the men's tournament is held. The BE always stuck the women's in Hartford. The PAC 10 has held theirs in Spokane in the past while the men were playing in downtown Los Angeles (now the men are in Las Vegas for three years). At least the B12 put theirs in a major downtown NBA arena, albeit in Ok City. Face it, most of these leagues just don't give a damn about the women's basketball tournament. But don't pretend it doesn't effect attendance. It's self fulfilling. Put it in a lousy place, no one will come, then you can use that as an excuse for putting it in a lousy place.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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Location: Indiana
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| Posted: 06/10/14 1:04 pm ::: |
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LOL...your true colors are coming through once again. The fact of the matter is that the Women's tournament will NEVER, EVER command the media attention or fan attendance that the Men's does...and that is true in any conference in this country.
There will never be a shortage of casual fans that will attend a men's Big Ten or Big East conference tournament, regardless of location.
Why the F would they put it in a spot that will make it less than conducive to the fans that normally go?
Downtown Indy at Banker's Life is a great location and one that doesn't need to be messed with...it's easy, convenient, great facility.
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 06/10/14 2:47 pm ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
LOL...your true colors are coming through once again. The fact of the matter is that the Women's tournament will NEVER, EVER command the media attention or fan attendance that the Men's does...and that is true in any conference in this country.
There will never be a shortage of casual fans that will attend a men's Big Ten or Big East conference tournament, regardless of location.
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Yet another total non sequitur. It's not a competition between the men and the women. Who cares if the men will always outdraw the women. That's no excuse for holding the women's tournament in the middle of nowhere. They still owe it to the women to put on the best possible show.
| purduefanatic wrote: |
Why the F would they put it in a spot that will make it less than conducive to the fans that normally go? |
Why indeed. Like Hoffman Estates, Il, for instance. I agree completely. They should absolutely hold it in a place that is most conducive for the fans. like downtown Chicago at the United Center.
| purduefanatic wrote: |
| Downtown Indy at Banker's Life is a great location and one that doesn't need to be messed with...it's easy, convenient, great facility. |
It's not bad. It's certainly better than way out in the Chicago suburbs. But it's not interesting. It's not going to inspire anyone to make the trip who's not otherwise already inclined to go. So if you have no interest in growing the popularity, or if you're from Indiana, it's fine. For everyone else, it's not remotely as desirable as downtown Chicago. And it's not at all as easy to get to as Chicago, by the way.
Bottom line is that the ONLY reason you've come up to oppose Chicago is that you think it's cheaper. It probably is, but of course there are reasons for that. And that apparently matters a lot to you, but there is no indication that it affects attendance one bit or matters to most anyone else. Heck, why not hold it at the iWireless Center in Moline? Holds 12,000, is centrally located, and it darn well is cheap to stay in the Quad Cities. It's chock full of Super 8s, Comfort Inns, and Motel 6s.
So I guess some people are just happy with the status quo of the women's game remaining a cut-rate afterthought forever. I think they can and should do better. Why should the public take it seriously when the schools and conferences and self-professed fans don't?
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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Location: Indiana
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| Posted: 06/10/14 3:11 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| purduefanatic wrote: |
LOL...your true colors are coming through once again. The fact of the matter is that the Women's tournament will NEVER, EVER command the media attention or fan attendance that the Men's does...and that is true in any conference in this country.
There will never be a shortage of casual fans that will attend a men's Big Ten or Big East conference tournament, regardless of location.
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Yet another total non sequitur. It's not a competition between the men and the women. Who cares if the men will always outdraw the women. That's no excuse for holding the women's tournament in the middle of nowhere. They still owe it to the women to put on the best possible show. |
Whoever said it was a competition between the men and the women? The point is that comparing them (which was brought up by you in regards to the BE Men/MSG) is a non-starter as they are 2 completely different animals. The Big Ten men's tourney in Chicago is front page news while the women's tourney will not...the women's tourney is an afterthought when you have the Bulls, Blackhawks, Bears, Cubs and White Sox. There is no such issue in Indianapolis as the city embraces the conference tournament.
For the record, I was completely against the Hoffman Estates location and knew it was going to be a disaster.
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| purduefanatic wrote: |
Why the F would they put it in a spot that will make it less than conducive to the fans that normally go? |
Why indeed. Like Hoffman Estates, Il, for instance. I agree completely. They should absolutely hold it in a place that is most conducive for the fans. like downtown Chicago at the United Center. |
Here's the question for you...is the tournament for the fans or the teams/players? It's for the players and you want to have the tournament in the facility that will provide the best atmosphere, fans, excitement, etc. Northwestern draws nobody, DePaul draws nobody...college sports are not very big in Chicago at all. It is a pro sports city big time.
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| purduefanatic wrote: |
| Downtown Indy at Banker's Life is a great location and one that doesn't need to be messed with...it's easy, convenient, great facility. |
It's not bad. It's not interesting. It's not going to inspire anyone to make the trip who's not otherwise already inclined to go. So it you have no interest in growing the popularity, or if you're from Indiana, it's fine. For everyone else, it's not remotely as desirable as downtown Chicago. And it's not at all as easy to get to as Chicago, by the way.
Bottom line is that the ONLY reason you've come up with is that you think it's cheaper. Which apparently matters a lot to you, but there is no indication that it affects attendance one bit or matters to most anyone else. Heck, why not hold it at the iWireless Center in Moline? Holds 12,000, is centrally located, and it darn well is cheap to stay in the Quad Cities. It's chock full of Super 8s, Comfort Inns, and Motel 6s.
So I guess some people are just happy with the status quo of the women's game remaining a cut-rate afterthought forever. I think they can and should do better. Why should the public take it seriously when the schools and conferences and self-professed fans don't? |
Yeah, Indianapolis is so hard to get to...there's only about 7 different major highways that connect to the beltway surrounding the city. Not to mention the brand new airport with lots of flights, easy parking and one of the easiest airports to get around in.
By the way, you ever been to the Big Ten women's basketball tournament? Ever seen how "poorly" it is run by the conference in the city of Indianapolis? I certainly hope you have attended some seeing as you have such a strong opinion of how much better it could be...always good to have a baseline to create an opinion from.
* As a side note, I'm glad to see that the American Athletic Conference is doing their part to "grow" the game by having the WBB Tournament at the Mohegan Casino in Uncasville, CT. Yep, great facility but exactly how does that grow the game by playing within a couple hours of UConn? That makes it easy for the directional Florida schools, SMU, Tulsa, Houston, East Carolina and the rest of the schools in that conference.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 06/10/14 3:23 pm ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
Yeah, Indianapolis is so hard to get to...there's only about 7 different major highways that connect to the beltway surrounding the city. Not to mention the brand new airport with lots of flights, easy parking and one of the easiest airports to get around in.
By the way, you ever been to the Big Ten women's basketball tournament? Ever seen how "poorly" it is run by the conference in the city of Indianapolis? I certainly hope you have attended some seeing as you have such a strong opinion of how much better it could be...always good to have a baseline to create an opinion from. |
I guess mischaracterizations and ad hominem attacks are all you've got left after your "arguments" have been exposed for the total hogwash that they are.
No one said Indianapolis is "hard to get to". But all things are relative. If you think it's remotely as easy to get to as Chicago, then evidently you don't travel much. And if you think all that matters is the number of highways, then you must not care about attracting fans located more than a couple hundred miles away. As I said, it's great if you're from Indiana. So why not address what people have actually written and stop trying to twist things to contrive an advantage that doesn't exist.
And nobody said the conference didn't do a nice job of running the tournament. Please e point out where anyone said it was "poorly run." They probably did a nice job in Huffman Estates too. That doesn't change that the location was horrible. They'd probably do a great job of running the tournament in Moline too. Or even in Gary. And I bet they could do just as good a job in Chicago too. Organization skills have zero to do with the desirability of the location, which is all this has been about.
Last edited by ArtBest23 on 06/10/14 3:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
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Location: Lost in D.C.
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| Posted: 06/10/14 3:34 pm ::: |
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I'll be honest - the likelihood that I will go to the B1G tournament is higher in Hoffman Estates than in Indianapolis, but it would be much higher in New York, Philadelphia or DC (especially DC, for obvious reasons). The reason for that is that I've been to Indianapolis and don't feel like I'll miss much if I don't go back. Whatever great qualities it has, I saw pretty much everything I would want to see when I was there for the WFF a few years back. (And the airport is nice, but it's awfully far from downtown.) While Hoffman Estates is in the burbs, it's still relatively easy to get to Chicago, and I might save a few bucks on my hotel compared to downtown.
Now, that's me. I live in DC and travel to Chicago, New York, etc., regularly, and that's by choice on my part. A lot of other fans probably feel differently, and would feel that paying Chicago or Philly hotel rates would be too expensive, even though there's a lot more to do in those cities.
Still, my guess is that Indianapolis for most B1G WCBB fans will be a better draw than Hoffman Estates, in part because the arena will be much better and in part because you probably have a better concentration of fans within striking distance than you do in that part of Illinois. But I think it might very well be worth trying an Eastern location once in a while, particularly Philadelphia, which would be close enough to Penn State, Maryland and RU to draw from them (and both Penn State and Maryland do pretty well in attendance, while I think RU will be on the upswing), and could be in a less expensive venue, like the Liacouras Center at Temple, which has hosted NCAA regionals in the past.
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bacabuck
Joined: 28 May 2009
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| Posted: 06/10/14 5:04 pm ::: |
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Cincinnati or Cleveland could be considered.........However Dayton, or even better, Akron would be excellent.
Confidentially, I would not personally recommend Youngstown, but I am sure some would just love it.
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 06/10/14 5:54 pm ::: |
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| bacabuck wrote: |
Cincinnati or Cleveland could be considered.........However Dayton, or even better, Akron would be excellent.
Confidentially, I would not personally recommend Youngstown, but I am sure some would just love it. |
My mom worked in Youngstown for a while.
Then she left and never went back.
Another possibility, if they have a big enough arena, is Toledo. I've liked it the couple of times I've been there, and they have a phenomenal art museum, much nicer than you'd expect in a city that size.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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Location: Indiana
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| Posted: 06/10/14 7:09 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| purduefanatic wrote: |
Yeah, Indianapolis is so hard to get to...there's only about 7 different major highways that connect to the beltway surrounding the city. Not to mention the brand new airport with lots of flights, easy parking and one of the easiest airports to get around in.
By the way, you ever been to the Big Ten women's basketball tournament? Ever seen how "poorly" it is run by the conference in the city of Indianapolis? I certainly hope you have attended some seeing as you have such a strong opinion of how much better it could be...always good to have a baseline to create an opinion from. |
I guess mischaracterizations and ad hominem attacks are all you've got left after your "arguments" have been exposed for the total hogwash that they are.
No one said Indianapolis is "hard to get to". But all things are relative. If you think it's remotely as easy to get to as Chicago, then evidently you don't travel much. And if you think all that matters is the number of highways, then you must not care about attracting fans located more than a couple hundred miles away. As I said, it's great if you're from Indiana. So why not address what people have actually written and stop trying to twist things to contrive an advantage that doesn't exist.
And nobody said the conference didn't do a nice job of running the tournament. Please e point out where anyone said it was "poorly run." They probably did a nice job in Huffman Estates too. That doesn't change that the location was horrible. They'd probably do a great job of running the tournament in Moline too. Or even in Gary. And I bet they could do just as good a job in Chicago too. Organization skills have zero to do with the desirability of the location, which is all this has been about. |
Guess the other stuff didn't merit a response. Anyway, I have actually been to 48 states and 6 foreign countries so I have actually been very fortunate when it comes to traveling. The sheer volume of flights going in/out of O'Hare makes it "easier" if you will, but there are several other factors involved. The several times I have flown in & out of Chicago has included many delays, whether they be wind, ice, fog, etc and not to mention the always fun delays due to air traffic control. I have sat on a runway a couple of times for a couple of hours waiting for Chicago to give the go-ahead for our flight to take off. The airport terminals are massive and the traffic getting in/out of the airport is quite often a nightmare.
While finding a flight to Chicago is certainly much easier, I would argue that the actual completion of the trip is much more of a pain in the ass. Someone made the point of the Indy airport being "so far" from downtown...the reality is the travel time from that airport to downtown is going to be much shorter than the travel time from O'Hare to downtown Chicago while also being a lot less stressful.
So, obviously if you think Chicago is easier to get to, you are clearly just referring to air travel only.
The reference to "running" the tournament was in reference to your comment that, and I quote, "I think they can and should do better". That also prompted the question of whether or not you have even attended because if you think they should do better, it's usually a good idea to have formed that opinion from actually experiencing firsthand. But no biggie...enjoy the Mohegan Sun.
To the other people posting, I could see something in Ohio being tried as the footprint of the conference has moved more to the East...Cincinnati would be good and Dayton is definitely a good option if you can get that facility.
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bacabuck
Joined: 28 May 2009
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| Posted: 06/10/14 11:27 pm ::: |
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| beknighted wrote: |
| bacabuck wrote: |
Cincinnati or Cleveland could be considered.........However Dayton, or even better, Akron would be excellent.
Confidentially, I would not personally recommend Youngstown, but I am sure some would just love it. |
My mom worked in Youngstown for a while.
Then she left and never went back.
Another possibility, if they have a big enough arena, is Toledo. I've liked it the couple of times I've been there, and they have a phenomenal art museum, much nicer than you'd expect in a city that size. |
Yes, Toledo is a great suggestion. I lived in that area for many years but finally had to leave because of it's proximity to michixition.
The museum thing is because of glass (Libby, I believe) and later, spark-plugs (Stranahan), endowed the place out their underwear. One of the best Egyptian exhibitions in the country........Many a time I have emerged from a women's basketball game and been asked "where is that art museum I have heard about?"
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